topic Re: Climate change eh? in The Round Table

Climate change eh?

cee-dee — Tue, 03 Sep 2019 13:07:10 GMT

We've all seen the "protests" about climate change? The thing is they've not considered a couple of things.

The first thing is that big Yellow thing up there and it's proximity or otherwise to this Planet. The orbit around the Sun isn't fixed and never has been. Checking out the rock and fossil "records" shows fluctuations in whether the Planet was hot or frozen, wet or dry.

The other thing is.... if it were possible to take a view of the World from the air from only 200 years ago and compare that to a present day view, it will show a massive difference. The areas now covered in buildings is colossal. I think the problem really lies in there being far too many humans! They took "Go forth and multiply" far too literally didn't they?

Re: Climate change eh?

upthecreekyetagain — Tue, 03 Sep 2019 16:43:07 GMT

So what you’re saying is that the orbit of the Earth and what man has done to the Earth can affect the climate - isn’t that “climate change”?

Re: Climate change eh?

astrologica — Tue, 03 Sep 2019 16:53:22 GMT

Quite correct CeeDee. This is something I have been banging on about for years. And you can thank the two main world religions for that. They did indeed tell their flocks to go forth and multiply. The world does appear to be waking up to this problem at last, but it's far far too late. The same concerns can be applied to the population of our small country. Successive governments have been either unable, or unwilling to do the Math. We are importing millions of immigrants who all need housing etc, but no thought at all is given to the fact that these people, along with our indigenous population, are going to multiply. And at the same time we are seeing all the precious green space in our towns and villages, and cities, being used for more and more houses.

The future?.....I think I am glad I'm getting old.

Re: Climate change eh?

al**bear — Wed, 04 Sep 2019 05:21:27 GMT

Great advice CeeDee

Check the rocks etc from those past Eras

As You said, the 'Temps' etc fluctuate over time- constantly

But, apart from Massive & super Volcanic eruptions or a strike from outer Space

The swings,

Have NEVER been so rapid - a couple of Centuries - compared to many millennia

That's the Difference

So Don't you think

That a 10x increase in the speed of the present Rise, compared to the Past

Will have very rapid, not Millennium slow changes.

and of course CeeDee, no mention of Sealevels if you go by 'past' Temps alone

.

.

*ÅL*

Re: Climate change eh?

cee-dee — Wed, 04 Sep 2019 08:38:12 GMT

Well Al, there's so many differences compared to ancient times and the one thing that stands out is the volume of human population.

Since the Industrial Revolution, not only have practices changed, the longevity of humans and their "multiplication" has increased their need for more and ever more industrialisation.

In the very, very long term life of this Planet, the impact of humanisation will only be seen as a blip in the rock and fossil records.

As you mentioned, the seas have ebbed and flowed over time and apart from the evidence left behind, we've no real concept of just how much land was either covered or exposed by the seas.

There's no real answer, minor tinkering and all this silly "protesting" won't help, in fact, the very acts of those "protesters" are counter-productive and probably actually contribute to upsetting the "natural balance" of climate (albeit temporary?).

Re: Climate change eh?

baybizz — Thu, 05 Sep 2019 17:07:16 GMT

Global Warming?

In 1975 Newsweek published an article about climate experts forecasting that we were all about to freeze...

The Cooling World...

"To scientists, these are advance signs of fundamental changes in the world's weather. The central fact is that after three quarters of a century of extraordinarily mild conditions, the earth's climate seems to be cooling down...

"A survey reveals a drop of half a degree in average ground temperatures in the Northern Hemisphere between 1945 and 1968. Satellite photos indicated a sudden large increase in Northern Hemisphere snow cover in the winter of 1971-72. The amount of sunshine reaching the ground in the continental U.S. diminished by 1.2 percent between 1964 and 1972.

"The earth's average temperature during the great Ice Age was only about seven degrees lower than during its warmest eras - the present decline has taken the planet about a sixth of the way toward the Ice Age average...

"Some regard the cooling as a reversion to the "little ice age" conditions that brought bitter winters to much of Europe and Northern America between 1600 abd 1900 - years when the river Thames used to freeze so solidly that Londoners roasted oxen on the ice, and when ice boats salied the Hudson River almost as far south as New York City...

"Climatologists are pessimistic that political leaders will take any positive action to compensate for the climate change, or even to allay its effects. They concede that some of the more spectacular solutions proposed, such as melting the arctic ice cap by covering it with black soot, might create problems far greater than those they solve...

"The Cooling World" - Newsweek 28 April 1975

http://www.denisdutton.com/newsweek_coolingworld.pdf

"Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose...

Re: Climate change eh?

cee-dee — Fri, 06 Sep 2019 11:09:29 GMT

That deserves much wider publicity.

Now then.... The most Northern oceans are saltier that those further South. If the Northern ice melts, that fresh water will be less salty than before. Isn't this somehow connected with the Gulf Stream? It's said that the Gulf Stream could "cease", making Northern parts a lot colder so eventually, wouldn't that lead to the ice re-forming?

Re: Climate change eh?

baybizz — Fri, 06 Sep 2019 22:09:54 GMT

These fads and obsessions have always been part of the human condition...

"An instance of the faith in predictions occurred in London in the year 1524. The city swarmed at that time with fortune-tellers and astrologers, who were consulted daily by people of every class in society on the secrets of futurity. As early as the month of June 1523, several of them concurred in predicting that, on the 1st day of February 1524, the waters of the Thames would swell to such a height as to overflow the whole city of London, and wash away ten thousand houses.

"The prophecy met implicit belief. It was reiterated with the utmost confidence month after month, until so much alarm was excited that many families packed up their goods, and removed into Kent and Essex. As the time drew nigh, the number of these emigrants increased. In January, droves of workmen might be seen, followed by their wives and children, trudging on foot to the villages within fifteen or twenty miles, to await the catastrophe. People of a higher class were also to be seen in wagons and other vehicles bound on a similar errand. By the middle of January, at least twenty thousand persons had quitted the doomed city, leaving nothing but the bare walls of their homes to be swept away by the impending floods.

"Many of the richer sort took up their abode on the heights of Highgate, Hampstead, and Blackheath; and some erected tents as far away as Waltham Abbey on the north, and Croydon on the south of the Thames. Bolton, the prior of St. Bartholomew’s, was so alarmed, that he erected, at a very great expense, a sort of fortress at Harrow-on-the-Hill, which he stocked with provisions for two months. On the 24th of January, a week before the awful day which was to see the destruction of London, he removed thither, with the brethren and officers of the priory and all his household. A number of boats were conveyed in wagons to his fortress, furnished abundantly with expert rowers, in case the flood, reaching so high as Harrow, should force them to go farther for a resting-place. Many wealthy citizens prayed to share his retreat; but the prior, with a prudent forethought, admitted only his personal friends, and those who brought stores of eatables for the blockade.

"At last the morn, big with the fate of London, appeared in the east. The wondering crowds were astir at an early hour to watch the rising of the waters. The inundation, it was predicted, would be gradual, not sudden; so that they expected to have plenty of time to escape as soon as they saw the bosom of old Thames heave beyond the usual mark. But the majority were too much alarmed to trust to this, and thought themselves safer ten or twenty miles off.

"The Thames, unmindful of the foolish crowds upon its banks, flowed on quietly as of yore. The tide ebbed at its usual hour, flowed to its usual height, and then ebbed again, just as if twenty astrologers had not pledged their words to the contrary. Blank were their faces as evening approached, and as blank grew the faces of the citizens to think that they had made such fools of themselves. At last night set in, and the obstinate river would not lift its waters to sweep away even one house out of the ten thousand. Still, however, the people were afraid to go to sleep. Many hundreds remained up till dawn of the next day, lest the deluge should come upon them like a thief in the night.

"On the morrow, it was seriously discussed whether it would not be advisable to duck the false prophets in the river. Luckily for them, they thought of an expedient which allayed the popular fury. They asserted that, by an error (a very slight one,) of a little figure, they had fixed the date of this awful inundation a whole century too early. The stars were right after all, and they, erring mortals, were wrong. The present generation of cockneys was safe, and London would be washed away, not in 1524, but in 1624...

At this announcement, Bolton the prior dismantled his fortress, and the weary emigrants came back...

"Extraordinary Popular Delusions
And
The Madness Of Crowds"

- Charles Mackay (1852)

gutenberg.org - extraordinary popular delusions.html

gutenberg.org - ebooks/24518

Re: Climate change eh?

cee-dee — Sun, 08 Sep 2019 09:49:48 GMT

We'll have to wait and see if this comes off?:-

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7440117/Britain-braces-one-COLDEST-winters-30-years-Beast-East-returns.html

Re: Climate change eh?

joe_bloggs* — Sat, 28 Sep 2019 22:11:45 GMT

The Greta Thunberg Helpline-For adults angry at a child,There's now a number you can call,,,,

Re: Climate change eh?

mustard-tree — Mon, 14 Oct 2019 20:16:58 GMT

Isnt climate change a natural phenomenon. We have had ice ages and other ages in the distant past, so maybe we will be getting more gradually as time passes.

Also, the reason for too many humans could be due to the nuclear age.

Before nuclear weapons were about, there were big wars about every 20 or 30 years and each one wiped out the masses.

WW1 and WW2 were just 2 of such wars. After 1945 there have been no such wars, just a few single country squabbles, as nuclear weapons have made everyone too frightened to start a big war.

Re: Climate change eh?

lambsy_uk — Mon, 14 Oct 2019 20:52:58 GMT

Yes climate change is a natural phenomenon and not just in the distant past but recent times also. It is being used as an excuse to control us and extract money and obedience from us. There are not too many humans, the World is doing just fine with the number of humans although we could do with bringing the poorer ones out of poverty as quickly as possible. World wars did not kill many, about 3% of the population perished during the Second World War, not really a wipeout. Disease has managed to affect population far better than war.

Re: Climate change eh?

joe_bloggs* — Wed, 11 Dec 2019 18:17:03 GMT

Greta Thunberg named Time Person of the Year for 2019

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-50740324

Well deserved

Re: Climate change eh?

lambsy_uk — Wed, 11 Dec 2019 18:41:17 GMT

What has she done to deserve it?

Re: Climate change eh?

astrologica — Wed, 11 Dec 2019 18:57:25 GMT

She has certainly highlighted environmental issues, but I do feel that the poor girl has been used by her 'activist' parents. She is autistic and has suffered from some serious mental health conditions in her short life.

Re: Climate change eh?

lambsy_uk — Wed, 11 Dec 2019 21:29:51 GMT

Unfortunately she’s been highlighting the spurious issues rather than the many legitimate ones.