topic Re: One word against another? in The Round Table

One word against another?

cee-dee — Tue, 01 Oct 2019 09:52:08 GMT

We've seen the accusations of touching and groping rage back and forth BUT........

Leaving aside attacks on those concerned (please), just what do you do when an historic accusation crops up?

How can the accused proffer a defence or how can the accuser prove it?

Noting that some of these happenings were years back, doesn't one have to ask "Did you make a fuss and accusation at the time and if not, why not" ?????

People are such liars, the accused, if guilty will deny it anyway and there's no guarantee the accuser is being honest either so just what do you do?

There's nothing stopping someone, who just happened to be at the same gathering as another person, using that close presence years later to accuse that person of inappropriate behaviour.

Things like that are almost impossible to prove or disprove without video evidence. Even supposed witnesses can also be liars so just where do you go from there? Do you allow people to make unsubstantiated smearing allegations willy-nilly or what???

Re: One word against another?

right-then-petal — Tue, 01 Oct 2019 10:38:56 GMT

hmm is this Male on Female, Female On Male, Not Forgatting All Those Inbetwiners

Re: One word against another?

cee-dee — Tue, 01 Oct 2019 11:15:11 GMT

Everything, but no specifics.

Re: One word against another?

purple_roger — Tue, 01 Oct 2019 11:38:29 GMT

Yes - it is time there was a time limit on all this.

You cannot put today's standards to things that happened ages ago.

5 years?

Re: One word against another?

fallen-archie — Tue, 01 Oct 2019 12:47:54 GMT

I am no great fan of this guy however his points laid out in the link below nail it for me!

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2019/10/an-unpopular-article/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Re: One word against another?

cee-dee — Tue, 01 Oct 2019 13:17:25 GMT

Well now, I read the whole of that page and it seems he has got it there.

I've said before that I think the liberal (with a small "L") attitude has gone far too far. Those that promote that attitude see wrong in everything if they don't agree. Far from simply disagreeing they go on the attack and before long, if it continues it'll go beyond the spoken and written word and develop in to physical "action".

Re: One word against another?

astrologica — Tue, 01 Oct 2019 16:30:36 GMT

I'm with purple roger......there should be a time limit. If you don't complain at the time, then you lose your right to complain later.

Re: One word against another?

margaret*e — Tue, 01 Oct 2019 19:29:04 GMT

It’s taken her 20 years to mention it?.🤔

Re: One word against another?

**bustysbargains** — Tue, 01 Oct 2019 21:31:18 GMT

Would you have the same view on Time limits, if say, Saville was still alive and cases coming to light?

Re: One word against another?

astrologica — Tue, 01 Oct 2019 22:03:08 GMT

Yes...a time limit is a time limit, and should apply to everyone.

Re: One word against another?

purple_roger — Wed, 02 Oct 2019 08:23:57 GMT

I think Saville was a quite unique case - people were scared to expose his bad deeds due to the extent of his good deeds.

Many accusers were stopped due to this.

Also children are not as easily taken as effective witnesses.

Re: One word against another?

**bustysbargains** — Wed, 02 Oct 2019 11:42:59 GMT

True, so maybe the saville case shows a good reason for no time limit.
You never know what reasons are behind a victims delay. They are untitled to justice if they truly have been wronged regardless of time.
We should have a good honest caring investigations team in place to deal with any case, to come to correct conclusions and judge accordingly.

Re: One word against another?

cee-dee — Wed, 02 Oct 2019 14:34:42 GMT

Two hyporthetical cases.

1/ A man is suddenly accused out of the Blue of "touching inapropriately" at an event he knows he attended fifteen years ago. He had no contact with the female before or since, he doesn't "know" her or even know of her. Now that he's a "prominent member of society", he's highly embarrassed and is now getting lots of sideways "aye-aye, he's a groper" looks. How does he defend himself?

2/ A woman is attending an event and enjoys a long chat and later a drink with "a prominent member of society". In an unguarded moment, he has a quick grope. She's shocked by the unwelcome touching and quickly beats a retreat. What should she have done and what should she do? Many years later the man is "an even more prominent member of society" and is often paraded as a pillar of respectable society but as she's toatlly opposed to a current direction the man is taking, should she bring the previous incident to everyone's attention or.... what?

Re: One word against another?

**bustysbargains** — Wed, 02 Oct 2019 16:44:37 GMT

Yes, sadly there are many kinds of scenario.
Society has to do what it can when they arise, there will never be 100% satisfaction.

Re: One word against another?

upthecreekyetagain — Wed, 02 Oct 2019 17:23:29 GMT

I see no problem with someone bringing into the public arena an accusation of wrong doing no matter who it is against nor how long ago the alleged incident was.

There is already a legal remedy available to the "accused" if they want to take it.

Creating new law to prevent individuals from making claims would not achieve anything.

In the scenario we are currently considering the idea of a statute of limitations is irrelevant - such a statute would not stop an accusation nor the potential damage it would do to the accused - all such a statute would achieve would be the potential to stop an offender facing justice.

There have been a number of cases of historic serious sexual assault that have been solved decades later thanks to the advances in DNA research.

Re: One word against another?

cee-dee — Wed, 02 Oct 2019 18:09:39 GMT

Where've you been? You've been missing?

DNA cannot remotely help in the issue of alleged "groping" many years down the line.

It boils down to the word of one against another.

Re: One word against another?

upthecreekyetagain — Wed, 02 Oct 2019 19:09:30 GMT

I brought the DNA cases in regarding the suggestion that there should be a statute of limitations on sexual assault cases.

As you say no help at all with cases such as the one involving our PM. As I said in my post there is no way you can stop such allegations being made at which point the damage is done.

Re: One word against another?

celticthebhoys585 — Thu, 03 Oct 2019 11:48:32 GMT

Does this apply to dogs too?

https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1179706488530624517