topic Re: OK, lets have some controversy? in The Round Table

OK, lets have some controversy?

cee-dee — Mon, 12 Aug 2019 09:19:21 GMT

I've just listened to a tirade by a Labour MP!!!!

It was about "Sporting Interests" in the countryside. He was attacking Grouse shooting (What a co-incidence, it's The Glorious Twelfth today), Pheasant shooting and Fox hunting. He was making stupid claims about "The Environment" and habitats.

He was claiming that the burning of Heather (on Grouse moors) damages the environment and habitats. Now then... there's a couple of ways of burning Heather, 1/ with the wind and 2/ against the wind. After establishing a regular cycle of burning, (every 15 years?), the idea is to burn with the wind for a "quick burn" so that the light growth is burned off but the roots and stems don't get damaged and the heather quickly produces new, healthy growth which the Grouse "like" and that the Heather doesn't "get leggy". Burning with the wind is also often done after a period of wet weather so that with a drying wind, the dry, light growth burns but the roots and damp ground is unharmed.

Burning against the wind can damage the roots and seeds as the burn is more intense and burns off leggy, woody stems but can also spread down in to the peaty layers.

Usually, controlled burning is done in sections in cycles, not the whole moor at once! As well as providing fresh new Heather by burning, many estates also lay down medicated grit to aid the Grouse and reduce parasites.

Moving on to Pheasant shooting, what that bloke didn't realise is that a lot of the countryside we see today is a mix of woodland and farm land and the way it is isn't a co-incidence. A lot of it was planned with "sporting" in mind. Without any "sporting" interests, the land would have been cleared of woods for farm land and there's be no "habitats"!!

Moving on to fox hunting, I've never been in favour of chasing a Fox for miles and letting the hounds rip it to pieces but again, a lot of the land was laid out with "sporting" in mind.

Now the tirade that I heard seemed to me to be more to do with clamping down on "The Rich" than anything to do with "The Evironment and Habitats". It sounded more like populist jealousy. If there were no gamekeepers, poachers of all sorts would have free reign to do whatever they wanted without fear of being seen or caught. Today, poachers are highly mobile and travel many miles to do what they do.

That ranting chap seems to want to tell landowners what to do with their land on the back of buzz-words "habitats, global warming, the environment" but seems to either forget or not know that the land is a mix of it all for good reason.

I wonder if he's also in favour of the "animal rights" activists? The ones that go round doing what they think will "stop" what they consider to be "wrong". They're the ones that went round releasing Mink from the Mink farms which have now spread everywhere causing damage to what was our existing wildlife. The same ones that have now started attacking Game farms and have recently caused the deaths of thousands of young birds.

It wouldn't surprise me if they were behind the shooting of (for instance) Red Kites trying to get the gamekeeprs the blame for it!!

Before anyone asks, NO, I don't go foxhunting, shooting Grouse or Pheasants.

So, it's over to the RT for comment?

Re: OK, lets have some controversy?

right-then-petal — Mon, 12 Aug 2019 15:25:00 GMT

wot about richard gere jumping in mouth first

love the reply he got from Goverment in italy

On Saturday, Salvini, who last year declared Italy’s ports closed to migrant rescue ships, replied to the actor: “Given this generous millionaire is voicing concern for the fate of the Open Arms migrants, we thank him.”

“He can take all the people aboard back to Hollywood, on his private plane,’’ Salvini said, “and support them in his villas. Thank you, Richard!”’

Re: OK, lets have some controversy?

astrologica — Mon, 12 Aug 2019 15:48:32 GMT

Don't you just love them...self important virtue signallers, who of course are so much nicer than the rest of us, who open their mouths before putting their brains in gear. Love Mr Salvini's reply!

Re: OK, lets have some controversy?

astrologica — Mon, 12 Aug 2019 16:02:51 GMT

Not knowing much about burning Heather (CeeDee seems to know a lot about this!) I can't really make a comment about that. I just have a very simple outlook regarding bloodsports. Any sport which involves killing or distressing any animal should be banned outright..and as soon as possible. And I would include horse racing in that too. The present fox hunting 'ban' is a joke, and the law is complicit in the flouting of that ban. Glorious twelfth my a*se.

Re: OK, lets have some controversy?

upthecreekyetagain — Mon, 12 Aug 2019 16:05:53 GMT

I have no problem with raising animals for food and skins so long as they are reared in good conditions and killed humanely.

I do not see any justification in killing animals for fun even if the by-product of that fun is food and/or better environmental conditions. What human quality is enhanced by killing for fun?

Re: OK, lets have some controversy?

fallen-archie — Mon, 12 Aug 2019 18:22:31 GMT

Yes creepy I agree, there is no fun to be had in shooting for fun, shooting for the pot is quite different which is why I prefer walk up shooting to driven! Before anyone reminds me that animals are sentient beings so are humans and many find the images posted by anti hunting groups particularly distressing, I don’t agree with that either! Also what are we to do about the number of animals slaughtered on our roads and motorways? The best way to support wildlife is to preserve more habitat and limit public access to nesting areas, If we do ever get in a position where large landowners are forced to give up tracts of land then I hope that wildlife will be allowed to flourish!

Re: OK, lets have some controversy?

al**bear — Tue, 13 Aug 2019 05:39:32 GMT

Sorry CeeDee -

But You have just described, the perfect way to raise

A GROUSE MOOR

Not the Natural Moor, where new heather sucks the water out and helps contain a moor,

Full of wildlife

Not a place where well over 70% of the Birds that actually survive (high mortality rate anyway)

To be shot ---

Are thrown into ditches, en masse and buried -

Not even eaten

Barbaric bloodlust

Re: OK, lets have some controversy?

al**bear — Tue, 13 Aug 2019 05:45:11 GMT

Grouse Moor - the Truth

All Fox corpses

Re: OK, lets have some controversy?

cee-dee — Tue, 13 Aug 2019 08:50:33 GMT

Well Al if that's what actually happened on a Grouse moor that's totally indefensible. Are there any details of locations? Whoever did that needs throwing off the moors.

Re: OK, lets have some controversy?

astrologica — Tue, 13 Aug 2019 16:45:45 GMT

Whoever did that needs shooting.

Re: OK, lets have some controversy?

fallen-archie — Tue, 13 Aug 2019 21:22:51 GMT

We are talking about extreme circumstances here which are rightly jumped upon by anti shooting lobbies. Stink pits are increasingly a fact of life in shoots which put up thousands of pheasants, traditionally a gun will take a brace and with others saying that lead shot is bad for you the rest get dumped, it is obscene and unacceptable in the 21st century! Grouse are usually all accounted for as they are highly prized by restaurants and very good eating.
What I would like to see, as with fox hunting, is a solution based upon science and logic rather than one based upon class, given that most shooters are considered to be toffs by Joe public I don’t think there is much chance of that happening, same applies to fox hunting, meanwhile the situation regarding those who sniff glue or who are addicted to spice, remains unclear, whether banning fox hunting or grouse shooting will help them remains to be seen!

Re: OK, lets have some controversy?

robbosgems — Tue, 20 Aug 2019 18:34:31 GMT

https://raptorpersecutionscotland.wordpress.com/2019/08/20/scottish-gamekeepers-association-fails-to-influence-the-criminals-within-its-membership/

Until scum like this are gutted like the grouse,nothing will change. I believe plans are in place for major land reform in Scotland,sooner the better. When they get rid of the rich lairds and incomer landowners the better IMHO.

What they contribute is negligible in big scheme of things.

Re: OK, lets have some controversy?

al**bear — Wed, 21 Aug 2019 06:37:16 GMT

Those piles are everywhere, theres 'Business Shooting'

People pay a fortune to act like a Toff

No one eats any Birds - they are shoved into a pit as well

They all go and eat Coq au Vin

---------------

I have NO problem with People who go and hunt and shot Grouse etc and eat them

I have major problems with People who go out and blast Birds out the Sky for Blood soaked Fun

and even worse the Owners of such shots, being in the vanguard of 'protect local customs'

Well they never have, most of the money goes to Rich landowners and London Companies

Re: OK, lets have some controversy?

al**bear — Wed, 21 Aug 2019 06:40:02 GMT

Shoots

Re: OK, lets have some controversy?

lambsy_uk — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 19:54:06 GMT

“I do not see any justification in killing animals for fun even if the by-product of that fun is food and/or better environmental conditions.”

The FUN is the justification, right there in front of you!

“What human quality is enhanced by killing for fun?”

The enhancement of a Good Shot!

Re: OK, lets have some controversy?

lambsy_uk — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 20:01:56 GMT

fallen-archie Community Member
Aug 13 wrote:

“ it is obscene and unacceptable in the 21st century!”

Remember this is only your opinion and please can you state the relevance of the century we are in?

Re: OK, lets have some controversy?

lambsy_uk — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 20:04:38 GMT

Still seems to be a lot of anti-snobbery around here; from heathens I’d guess!

Re: OK, lets have some controversy?

fallen-archie — Fri, 30 Aug 2019 22:39:39 GMT

In response to lambsy who asked the relevance of the century we are in! It’s because practices that were deemed relevant in the 19th Century were broadly dispensed with in the 20th C with a few noteworthy exceptions, this being one imho, and with us now being in the 21st century I and I stress I believe that the use of stink pits is wholly unacceptable, I can however understand your nit picking as it is your way👍🧐

Re: OK, lets have some controversy?

upthecreekyetagain — Sat, 31 Aug 2019 09:29:42 GMT

@lambsy_uk wrote:
“I do not see any justification in killing animals for fun even if the by-product of that fun is food and/or better environmental conditions.”

The FUN is the justification, right there in front of you!

“What human quality is enhanced by killing for fun?”

The enhancement of a Good Shot!

Are you really claiming that if an activity is considered ‘fun’ by those participating then that is justification for the act?

Those taking part in **bleep** fighting, hare coursing and dog fighting no doubt consider it fun - are these also justifiable pastimes in your opinion?

Maybe you consider being a “good shot” is a “human quality” - I think you are mixing a skill up with a quality.

Re: OK, lets have some controversy?

lambsy_uk — Sat, 31 Aug 2019 19:27:04 GMT

fallen-archie fallen-archie Community Member
Aug 30
“In response to lambsy who asked the relevance of the century we are in! It’s because practices that were deemed relevant in the 19th Century were broadly dispensed with in the 20th C with a few noteworthy exceptions, this being one imho, and with us now being in the 21st century I and I stress I believe that the use of stink pits is wholly unacceptable, I can however understand your nit picking as it is your way“

Not nit picking, it just puzzles me, and by no means have you been the first of only person to do this; but I wonder why the century we are in is deemed to be relevant as if we are supposed to be more sophisticated now or something! We’ve had plenty of supposedly advanced civilisations over the years; Egyptians, Greeks, The Enlightenment and so on; are we supposed to be fundamentally different because of the era we live in? Has something changed in our psyches or DNA in short space of time that would expect that we no longer gain a thrill or reward from hunting? What makes people think we should have changed so fundamentally in such a short space of time? How the 21st century supposed to make us significantly different to the 1st century?