topic Re: Knives??? in The Round Table

Knives???

cee-dee — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 10:42:11 GMT

Just reading and watching the news about all these stabbings made me wonder where all the knives used in those offences come from? Are they all "kitchen knives" or "steak knives"?? Ebay is full of them!

Carrying a "knife" is an offence isn't it? However, what constitutes a "knife" as an offensive weapon? Didn't it used to be a knife with a blade more than four inches long?

For years I've carried a "pocket knife", like a pen-knife with a folding blade less than two and a half inches long that doesn't "lock" but I suppose that could be construed as an "offensive weapon" if used "offensively"? My current one is one made by Victorinox (Makers of the famous "Swiss Army Knife") I think it was called "waiter" because as well as the long blade, it has a bottle opener and corkscrew (plus toothpick and tweezers)!

Other than knives as mentioned surely any other type is "offensive" and shouldn't be available on sale? The so-called "hunting knife" surely has no other use than an offensive intent as really, how many people actually "go hunting"?

Over to you folks for comments?

Re: Knives???

**caution**opinion_ahead — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 11:01:22 GMT

*visions of CD shaping his eyebrows nicely*

Re: Knives???

cee-dee — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 11:12:23 GMT

You want one too? Here you go:-

Re: Knives???

margaret*e — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 11:16:24 GMT

Surely any knife could be used as an offensive weapon if the intention is there.

The question is what can be done about the high levels of knife and other violent crime.

Re: Knives???

upthecreekyetagain — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 11:57:50 GMT

I think the answer to the question is here:-

https://www.inbrief.co.uk/offences/offensive-weapon-possessing/

Google is your friend 😉

Re: Knives???

cee-dee — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 12:10:08 GMT

Not always. It depends where you look. Try this extract from a uk.gov site:-

Section 1 of the Prevention of Crime Act 1953 and section 139 of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 respectively provide for offences of having an offensive weapon in a public place without lawful authority or reasonable excuse and having an article with blade or sharply pointed in a public place without lawful authority or good reason. Section 139A of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 provides that it an offence to have an article within either of the above offences on school premises.

Sections 139 and 139A of the Criminal Justice Act 1988 apply to any article which has a blade or point except a folding pocketknife unless the cutting edge of its blade exceeds 7.62 centimetres (3 inches).

Section 1 of the Prevention of Crime Act 1953 provides that an offensive weapon is any article made or adapted for use for causing injury to the person, or intended by the person having it with him for such use by him or by some other person.

Re: Knives???

upthecreekyetagain — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 12:15:07 GMT

Nothing there that is different than the site I linked to ???

Re: Knives???

upthecreekyetagain — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 12:19:38 GMT

So the three categories are:-

An item made to harm - i.e. no innocent purpose

An item that has been adapted to cause injury

An item that could cause injury and is being carried for neither an innocent nor lawful purpose

Re: Knives???

fallen-archie — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 12:48:24 GMT

I think you have hit the nail on the head there marg when you mention the intent. What drives people to carry offensive weapons, is it that they feel insecure or inadequate, do they feel empowered by carrying a weapon? What is clear is that our system of rehabilitation needs to be thought through! Deterrents only work if they deter, So what can we do to stop this carnage? We need knives for our everyday lives so banning them is not a possibility, I think there is no easy answer, but it would help if organised crime were seriously disrupted, stop the drug barons, and the pushers and the use of spice, make alternative therapies more readily available to those who need it with an amnesty to support efforts. It has worked with cigarettes why not with recreational drugs. Start in the schools showing actual graphic details of the harm done by drugs and by carrying weapons, make it socially repugnant and those that are found In possession ought to be named and shamed even put in stocks and pelted with rotten tomatoes, humiliation should await offenders if they continue to carry knives! Unless anyone else has a better idea of course?

Re: Knives???

astrologica — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 13:19:05 GMT

They should bring back capital punishment asap, and show in schools graphic details of what capital punishment means. The low life scumbag who took the life of that poor decent man on the train , if convicted and sentenced, will have a nice life in jail, with every comfort he requires, courtesy of all you lovely tax payers on here. As for the carrying of knives..all should be prohibited, irrespective of blade length, and a lengthy jail sentence should be mandatory for anyone found carrying one. Before this country went soft, most men carried a small knife for various purposes, but in those days, if it was used to kill someone then the result was a short length of rope.

We have a broken society...sad times.

Re: Knives???

dark_castle1 — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 13:49:11 GMT

astro, so you are advocating a lengthy jail sentence for someone like myself who carrys a small folding pocket knife to cut nylon banding on some deliveries where a forklift is not available and the load needs handballed off ?

Re: Knives???

plpmr — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 14:36:10 GMT

"They should bring back capital punishment asap"

Absolutely not and just one argument is the Birmingham pub bombings.

Re: Knives???

upthecreekyetagain — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 14:48:51 GMT

And we know capital punishment is not a deterrent.

Re: Knives???

cee-dee — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 15:00:52 GMT

It stops them "doing it again" though.

So what punishment are you proposing instead?

Re: Knives???

astrologica — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 15:03:16 GMT

I appreciate that some people, like yourself, need to have some sort of tool handy to cut things in their line of work, but could your employers not provide something that would do the job, but not be used to stab people? It's just not practical to say 'you can carry a knife' to some people..but you can't ' to others. My OH carries a small knife for use when he's at his allotment, but if it was made unlawful then there would be nothing stopping him leaving it at his shed and not carrying it around. There is no easy answer.

Re: Knives???

astrologica — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 15:10:15 GMT

I know there are some folks here that are totally against capital punishment....we have had that discussion before! The poor chap who was murdered on the train.....I wonder what his wife and son think? If it were me, I would want them to pay the ultimate price....as CeeDee says, they can never do it again. In my view...if you take a life, then you forfeit your own.

Re: Knives???

cee-dee — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 15:14:16 GMT

The law as it stands regarding pocket knives and knives used as part of a job allow for carrying those BUT.... just how many stabbings have been carried out by using such knives? Any?

Thinking about a deterrant instead of capital punishment I think creaky had in mind sending them for a months stay in Skegness?

Re: Knives???

upthecreekyetagain — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 16:37:45 GMT

@cee-dee wrote:
The law as it stands regarding pocket knives and knives used as part of a job allow for carrying those BUT.... just how many stabbings have been carried out by using such knives? Any?

Thinking about a deterrant instead of capital punishment I think creaky had in mind sending them for a months stay in Skegness?

That would be classified as a cruel and unusual punishment!

Re: Knives???

upthecreekyetagain — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 16:44:18 GMT

@astrologica wrote:
I know there are some folks here that are totally against capital punishment....we have had that discussion before! The poor chap who was murdered on the train.....I wonder what his wife and son think? If it were me, I would want them to pay the ultimate price....as CeeDee says, they can never do it again. In my view...if you take a life, then you forfeit your own.

That is a totally different argument to the one that the death penalty is a deterrent.

The wish for revenge is a powerful emotion and has no place in a justice system.

Imagine you were wrongly convicted for murder and sentenced to death - sometime after your execution the real murderer is discovered - who would the justice system take revenge against? - The judge,the juror,the police?

Re: Knives???

astrologica — Sun, 06 Jan 2019 16:50:16 GMT

We have had endless discussions on this subject before Creeky...all I can say is that in my view, where there is irrefutable and absolute evidence of guilt, we should be able to have Capital punishment. Just my view...obviously you have a different one.