topic Re: How about a bit of controversy? in The Round Table

How about a bit of controversy?

cee-dee — Thu, 02 Feb 2017 22:17:47 GMT

We've all seen Trump going on about various types of immigrants and his controversial views but in a way, has he got a point?

People keep saying that America was founded by immigrants who've made the country what it is BUT.... the majority of those immigrants were looking for a new life, a different way, not a continuation of the life they previously led. In short, they wanted to be Americans.

Now we see various types who don't want to be Americans, they don't want to integrate, they want to live their same way, want to speak their own language, don't want to learn to speak the language of the country. They want to form their own enclaves, they want to forge a part of their home country in America with their way and customs of life, in short they don't want to be Americans.

We see similar happenings here. What's your thought?

Re: How about a bit of controversy?

margaret*e — Thu, 02 Feb 2017 22:47:01 GMT

I think all those protesting would be surprised how many on this side of the pond agree with him.

Re: How about a bit of controversy?

evoman3957 — Thu, 02 Feb 2017 23:00:57 GMT

We're standing on a precipice and what's in the balance is democracy itself. The west has got involved in countries, trying to bring democracy to places that were not ready for it and should never have had it. Not only has that failed miserably, but they are demonstrating, to the whole World, that democracy; in their own countries, is less than perfect. It would appear that it now means that it's a wonderful form of governance, as long as you get what you want; what the majority want, is of secondary importance...........great example !!!

The American people were sick of lying, scheming, corrupt, politicians and their answer was to elect a businessman as president. So far, if you ask those that voted for him, they are perfectly happy with what they got; because he's doing exactly what he said he'd do. As for the establishment, obviously they are going to fight for their very existence; whether the people want them or not..........and THAT is what happens when you hand power over to others and get complacent / apathetic..........and then try to take it back. If it rings a bell regarding this country...........so it should !!!

Re: How about a bit of controversy?

upthecreekyetagain — Thu, 02 Feb 2017 23:15:53 GMT

Is that really true?

Did the Chinese, the Irish, the Italians, the Jews, Africans and so on not all create their own 'little Americas' that have, even after decades, (centuries), still not fully integrated.

Re: How about a bit of controversy?

right-then-petal — Thu, 02 Feb 2017 23:36:04 GMT

hang on what about the red indians they were there first

Re: How about a bit of controversy?

upthecreekyetagain — Thu, 02 Feb 2017 23:41:11 GMT

@right-then-petal wrote:
hang on what about the red indians they were there first

Correct - how many of the early settlers integrated with them and accepted their culture rather than imposing their own?

Re: How about a bit of controversy?

theelench — Fri, 03 Feb 2017 08:54:17 GMT

What they were buying into was the ethos of the US, democracy, toleration and above all the freedom to aspire to have a better life. Nobody said they had to give up their religion or culture to become Americans.

Some of my American friends live in Pennsylvania, in a small town with a large Polish community that has a vibrant social life. Those who want to are free to learn the Polish language, traditions, arts, crafts and cuisine. No matter how much they keep their Polishness they come together on the 4th of July to celebrate America and being American. They are very definitely Americans first and are fully integrated into its ethos.

The same with the Chinese, Irish, Italians, Jews and many others. They all went there to get away from societies where they had no opportunity, were repressed or persecuted or just wanted a better life.

Re: How about a bit of controversy?

upthecreekyetagain — Fri, 03 Feb 2017 09:18:53 GMT

So essentially the same motivation as the vast majority of refugees fleeing Syria and Iraq.

Re: How about a bit of controversy?

theelench — Sat, 04 Feb 2017 06:48:59 GMT

I don't see any evidence that refugees from Syria and Iraq have any burning desire to buy into our ethos. I don't see any commitment to tolerance, democracy or even compromise.

Re: How about a bit of controversy?

al**bear — Sat, 04 Feb 2017 07:47:16 GMT

@cee-dee wrote:

they don't want to integrate, they want to live their same way, want to speak their own language, don't want to learn to speak the language of the country. They want to form their own enclaves, they want to forge a part of their home country in America with their way and customs of life, in short they don't want to be Americans.

That exactly describes the extreme Religious fundamentalists 'The Pilgrim Fathers' who arrived on the Mayflower at Cape Cod, Mass. in 1620

Not to as the myth goes, to escape prosecution, they were the persecutors

They didn't want to integrate with the other Christian settlers, so set up a single Religious state and even hung two Quakers who refused to convert

Re: How about a bit of controversy?

upthecreekyetagain — Sat, 04 Feb 2017 10:43:55 GMT

@theelench wrote:
I don't see any evidence that refugees from Syria and Iraq have any burning desire to buy into our ethos. I don't see any commitment to tolerance, democracy or even compromise.

I can't say I've seen any evidence either way - there seems to be very little information available.

The best figure I can find is that about 4,000 settled in the U.K. last year - a tiny number in comparison to our overall population or in comparison to the 300,000+ net immigration figure.

I agree that there is little evidence showing a commitment to tolerance, democracy or compromise but likewise there is little evidence showing otherwise!

Re: How about a bit of controversy?

astrologica — Sat, 04 Feb 2017 19:50:39 GMT

Multiculturalism does not, and will not work. It is a Utopian dream, wonderful in it s idea, but not so wonderful when it comes down to basics.As Evo has said on another thread, the human race has not improved much. Humans have an innate tendency to want to be with their own kind, and there is nothing wrong with that. In a time of plenty, with no shortages of food , water, housing, health care and good education that need would not matter one iota. But when things get tough, and there are shortages of any of these things, that's when things start to unravel. As they unravel there will be dissent and different groups, races, religions will be set one against another. This could happen in a few years, or a few decades, but it will happen....on this little overcrowded island. I will probably be labelled a racist or a bigot for this, my view of our future, but I am neither. I am a practical person, a pragmatist, and to me our future does not look rosy.

Re: How about a bit of controversy?

joe_bloggs* — Sat, 04 Feb 2017 20:58:51 GMT

The thread is obviously too controversial for the OP

Re: How about a bit of controversy?

cee-dee — Sat, 04 Feb 2017 22:07:09 GMT

Hey, the idea was to stimulate some action on a dead RT. Seems I succeeded?