topic What's your answer to this? in The Round Table

What's your answer to this?

cee-dee — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 21:51:05 GMT

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/calais-migrants-face-catastrophe-153936990.html#3RP7sMo

The situation can't go on?

Not only can the stowaway situation there not continue, the constant flow of people trying to get to Europe and/or Britain cannot continue either.

Those people should be told that there's nothing for them except a life in a refugee camp. They can't become a "normal" member of society in their target country because they can't speak the language and those that get here (legally or illegally) don't seem to want to bother to learn either. They can't do anything useful except work that's already over subscribed so their only work is going to be an exploited modern form of slavery.

They're looking for a short-cut to a way of life that's taken a couple of thousand years to achieve and they're many centuries behind.

It's high time they were "educated" about the facts of illegal immigration and shown what has happened to many who went before them and all efforts should be made to dissuade and/or prevent them starting out in the first place rather than dealing with them en route or at their destination.

Re: What's your answer to this?

upthecreekyetagain — Thu, 18 Jun 2015 23:01:35 GMT

What 'form' would you suggest this 'education' should take?

Re: What's your answer to this?

joamur_gosof — Fri, 19 Jun 2015 01:38:33 GMT

I suggest a world war on dictators and then once we are rid of them ,all live happilly ever after anywhere you damn well want .Allocation of resources to be even and nobody on earth allowed more than 1000000 thats the target to aspire to (Not given a mill and thats it but a yoyo million) ....quick sum errr

6 billion x 1 million equals 600 trillion................err hang on thats exactly what the world has ...its like it was all planned out in advance isnt it and and and no one has more than anyone else yippee freeeeeedom utopia and .....wait ??? its not gonna work is it ,because

'' I EARNED IT ITS MINE'' lives here too ....ah well ...what was the question again .aaaannnnnd.......

Off to warmer climate now , Its fa airly enjoyable forum this one bar the odd mod for nothing ,you guys would be better on a more used national forum as you all seem pretty clued up .

Cheers for putting up with me

regards to all

Jo .:)

Re: What's your answer to this?

cee-dee — Fri, 19 Jun 2015 09:18:01 GMT

I'd show them some video about the camp at Calais, the "reception centres" in the UK, the reception/holding areas in other countries (Italy and Greece?). I'd show them some video in English or the language of their target country and ask them how much of it they understood. Then I'd ask them how they expected to earn a living in their target country then tell them just how much of a chance they'd stand of getting such employment.

Finally, I'd show them video of people in their target country being interviewed and asked what they thought of the hordes of migrants heading for their country and I'd tell them quite bluntly that they were just not desirable as migrants!

Re: What's your answer to this?

******lynda****** — Fri, 19 Jun 2015 09:25:48 GMT

I think they don't realise that by flooding other countries, they would just end up creating the same sort of environment as they have run from. ...the fighting, the hunger and deprivation. I have always said the main problem in the world is its expanding population. And it is sad that those who go forth and multiply the most are those who have the fewest resources to feed themselves and their families, and then look to everyone else to keep them supplied.

Re: What's your answer to this?

cee-dee — Fri, 19 Jun 2015 09:26:58 GMT

Spot on, well said.

Re: What's your answer to this?

astrologica — Fri, 19 Jun 2015 10:13:31 GMT

Yes Lynda, overpopulation is the biggest threat to humanity on this planet. And Catholicism and Islam are the biggest contributors to this overpopulation. They still expect their people to produce as many children as possible.The Pope came out yesterday with a piece about climate change. They don't seem to be able to make the connection between overpopulation and climate change.The more people there are on this planet, the more energy is required to feed, house and clothe them. The Optimum Population Trust, and Sir David Attenborough have been warning us about this for years, but it is falling on deaf ears.

Re: What's your answer to this?

cee-dee — Fri, 19 Jun 2015 10:19:46 GMT

Re that bit about climate change from the Pope......

Just have a look at the fossil and rock "records" and see the changes on climate over the eons of time when humans didn't exist. There was no-one burning fossil fuels then.

For climate change look up at that big Yellow thing "up in the sky"................

Re: What's your answer to this?

astrologica — Fri, 19 Jun 2015 10:25:09 GMT

It's very worrying. It's an absolutely tragic situation...who could blame these people for wanting to get here. And the EU open border policy is a **bleep**-up of monumental proportion. Cee Dee is quite right...somehow they need to become aware that if they came here their lives would not be as they are imagining. Maybe the young fit men could be taken back to their homeland ..they should be fighting for their countries. It's a very emotive subject, and as CeeDee says...it cannot go on as it is.

Re: What's your answer to this?

upthecreekyetagain — Fri, 19 Jun 2015 17:11:57 GMT

@******lynda****** wrote:
I think they don't realise that by flooding other countries, they would just end up creating the same sort of environment as they have run from. ...the fighting, the hunger and deprivation. I have always said the main problem in the world is its expanding population. And it is sad that those who go forth and multiply the most are those who have the fewest resources to feed themselves and their families, and then look to everyone else to keep them supplied.

I find it sad and overbearingly patronising when people suggest that the third worlds problems are due to over-reproduction and it is this that is driving climate change and other enviromental changes.

The third world do NOT have the fewest resources - the third world do NOT cause the greatest pollution.

We in the west individually use many times the resources of anyone in the third world - use energy sourced from fossil fuels in a massive multiple of anyoen in the third world - just compare these images.

To blame overpopulation in third world countries for problems in the West is simply trying to absolve the West from blame.

Re: What's your answer to this?

upthecreekyetagain — Fri, 19 Jun 2015 17:15:15 GMT

Maybe easier to appreciate those satellite images in a higher resolution

Europe

Africa

Re: What's your answer to this?

cee-dee — Fri, 19 Jun 2015 17:43:35 GMT

Well, I answered your question? So what's your solution because blaming high energy usage isn't the answer to the problems outlined in the OP and afterwards. (Remember? we were on about migrants?)

How does having loads of children the parents can't (easily) feed and look after make their way of life "right" and our way "wrong"?

Look back at Southern Rhodesia and compare it to Zimbabwe now?

In many parts of the World, you could blame the old Colonialists but "The People" wanted to "rule" themselves and now they do, look what they've done with it?

Some of the "poor" are even poorer and there are many more of them now but those "running the show" are as bent as a fourpenny piece and don't care how poor those people are and given the chance (which they mostly are) they repress and exploit the poor much more and a great deal more badly than their old Colonial masters ever did.

Re: What's your answer to this?

******lynda****** — Fri, 19 Jun 2015 20:53:55 GMT

That is not what I said. I never mentioned climate change. I said too many migrants flooding any country will affect that country adversely...lots more people , finite resources...jobs, housing, doctors, school places. Immigration trickles are fine but sudden influxes of many thousands causes problems and if a large proportion of the population of several countries decide to move at once, it causes a strain, as we can see in Italy, Malta. The flood of people continues, more and more countries will be as overwhelmed, and there is no Utopia waiting for these folk.
If 2 sets of people start killing each other in their own country, what is to stop killing starting in adopted countries when disagreements get out of hand or one faction decides to dominate?
Overpopulation is a world issue, not a third world issue. We cannot keep growing the world population at the same rate as we have. Plenty of people in this country have children, expecting the state to provide for them. I was not referring to mineral resources etc. I meant wages, education, parenting skills.

Re: What's your answer to this?

joe_bloggs* — Fri, 19 Jun 2015 21:25:14 GMT

" Plenty of people in this country have children, expecting the state to provide for them" do you have any statistics for that?

it's those same children who will be paying our pensions

Re: What's your answer to this?

fallen-archie — Fri, 19 Jun 2015 21:27:59 GMT

If only there were a solution which would gain broad support. At the moment the race for wealth and by that I mean wealth for a handful of nations prohibits any chance of seeing a falling population. Current economic thinking is at best single generational beyond that someone else can deal with it, that's the attitude. Stewardship of the planet is a shared responsibility only when we wake up to that responsibility can we start to repair the damage.

Re: What's your answer to this?

cee-dee — Fri, 19 Jun 2015 21:34:39 GMT

How about getting back on topic?

Re: What's your answer to this?

astrologica — Fri, 19 Jun 2015 21:57:15 GMT

I apologise CeeDee...it was I who mentioned climate change and took the thread off topic, even though there is a connection .
As to the OP...in my view the solution must involve preventing the people from crossing the Mediterranean in the first place, however that may be achieved. The situation is at crisis point.

Re: What's your answer to this?

cee-dee — Fri, 19 Jun 2015 22:32:04 GMT

The thing is, over population happened in Africa long before now and was usually resolved by either warfare of one sort or another, disease or starvation and that was nothing to do with climate change.

So, back on topic, it's only relatively recently unwanted migration has become a problem and some questions are, has that been provoked by greater mobility, easy communication and the availability of transport over great distances all coupled with the greater knowledge about the payment of benefits of one sort or another in the target countries?

Re: What's your answer to this?

blackburn_stevie — Sat, 20 Jun 2015 02:57:08 GMT

This may not be a solution that we could all live with but I, for one, will give it a go for a year or so and see how it goes.

1 ..... Everybody in the country gets one immigrant as a slave.

2 ..... By everybody, I mean each family. so a father, mother and 2.4 kids like we are all told equals a full family equates to a full family gets one immigrant each. as do each single boy or daughter that leaves home. That doesn't make sence but I hope you get my drift.

3 ..... Each son is issued with a male immigrant and each daughter is issued with a female one.

4 ..... Each immigrant is paid 10p a day and given food and drink as required.

5 ..... Each immigrant (or "IMM" as they may be called in future.) will get 10 square feet of earth in a garden or yard etc where they can create a home for themselves. If room and convenience allow, they will also be given 10 square yards of land on which they can create some form of land to provide crops etc.

6 ..... There will be no meetings between groups of IMM's even if it means chaining them to a suitable tree or similar item. That way, there will be no IMM's being born within the community. As time passes and funds become available, each IMM can be "doctored".

7 ..... Any female IMM that has a half cast child will have the father removed from general population and put in jail as a pervert for at least 10 years,

8 More rules to come as I think of them but how are they looking so far?

Happy days.

Stevie

Re: What's your answer to this?

merehazle — Sat, 20 Jun 2015 10:21:25 GMT

@joamur_gosof wrote:
I suggest a world war on dictators and then once we are rid of them ,all live happilly ever after anywhere you damn well want .Allocation of resources to be even and nobody on earth allowed more than 1000000 thats the target to aspire to (Not given a mill and thats it but a yoyo million) ....quick sum errr
6 billion x 1 million equals 600 trillion................err hang on thats exactly what the world has ...its like it was all planned out in advance isnt it and and and no one has more than anyone else yippee freeeeeedom utopia and .....wait ??? its not gonna work is it ,because
'' I EARNED IT ITS MINE'' lives here too ....ah well ...what was the question again .aaaannnnnd.......

Off to warmer climate now , Its fa airly enjoyable forum this one bar the odd mod for nothing ,you guys would be better on a more used national forum as you all seem pretty clued up .

Cheers for putting up with me
regards to all
Jo .:)

'I suggest a world war on dictators' If only Jo.

Most countries do not indulge in warfare. It is a matter of concern and distress to most people in the world that a significant handful of countries, often in defiance of United Nations' principles, are almost constantly at war, either overtly, or through the support and provocation of others. Blair, and Bush, are just two examples.

In the human psyche

it is a fatal flaw,

a perversion of the human mind,

using our greatest brains to create

outrageous threats to all mankind.

War is

the proudest disrespect

for sanctity of human life,

the ultimate in racism,

the collapse of morality.

War is the ultimate in criminality

the ultimate obscenity,

the ultimate crime against humanity.

So shall we honour war?

And should we now praise troubled men?

Or should we remember what war is

and give it true meaning

to ''Never again'' ?

Du, ju, no, wot? I wrote that. Well...just now I did.