topic Re: Should Faith/Religion Have Such a High Value In Our Society? in The Round Table

Should Faith/Religion Have Such a High Value In Our Society?

lambsy_uk — Wed, 11 Jun 2014 09:24:10 GMT

I'm not here to trample all over people's faith/beliefs but to ask if/why such beliefs should hold such high value in our society?

So where am I comming from? Well we can freely question almost anything in our society/lives; morals, political beliefs, actions and reactions, motivations, interactions, foreign policy, education, welfare, how we raise our children, law and order and so on..........

However we are positively discouraged from questioning people's faith/beliefs/religion! We are also actively encouraged to accommodate and allow for people's religious beliefs, and this is the bit that really irks me! Why is it that if something is done in the name of a religious belief/practice then we are expected to accept it with little fuss where if any other excuse were used we'd be up in arms?

We endure arguments of whether animal rights should take precedence over religion, whether saving the life of a child should take precedence over their parent's beliefs, should freedom of expression take precedence over religious sensitivities?

For me you may as well base stuff on the football team you support;

"I can't comply with the company dress code because I'm a United fan and therefore I must be allowed to wear a United shirt at work."

As far as I'm concerned this is no more ridiculous than anything done/not done in the name of religious beliefs!

So why do religious beliefs hold such high status and is it right that they do?

Re: Should Faith/Religion Have Such a High Value In Our Society?

cee-dee — Wed, 11 Jun 2014 09:39:41 GMT

No it's not right. As to why they hold such "high value" in our society it's because we are tolerant, quite the opposite to most religions!

If some group believed the Moon is made of Green Cheese, would it be right that they stone to death anyone who questioned their belief?

A ridiculous comparison? No, it's not. I say if the Paradise some groups believe in is so wonderful, why don't they all clear off there now and leave the rest of us alone?

Re: Should Faith/Religion Have Such a High Value In Our Society?

lambsy_uk — Wed, 11 Jun 2014 10:20:39 GMT

"No it's not right. As to why they hold such "high value" in our society it's because we are tolerant, quite the opposite to most religions!"

But this is not a question of our tolerence of different religions versus the tolerence those of certain beliefs show to us/others. The question is whether any religion should be tolerated to the extent it is?

I believe we should tolerate religious beliefs but no more than we tolerate people supporting different football teams! People can go worship what they want but as soon as they expect others to bend to their whims I believe they should expect those whims to be quashed!

Re: Should Faith/Religion Have Such a High Value In Our Society?

saasher2012 — Wed, 11 Jun 2014 10:57:36 GMT

Unfortunately if you try & debate on this subject you get accused of bullying or being flippant !

Re: Should Faith/Religion Have Such a High Value In Our Society?

bankhaunter — Wed, 11 Jun 2014 11:47:41 GMT

It doesn't matter what a person's personal beliefs ot how whacky they may be as long as they keep those beliefs to themselves and don't try to mess up the lives of others.

A classic example was the attempted stopping of a Sunday ferry service between Lewis and Stornaway on the grounds of it being the Sabbath.

And of course they don't try to teach children ignorance and how to have a closed mind.

Re: Should Faith/Religion Have Such a High Value In Our Society?

rose2008-2008 — Wed, 11 Jun 2014 11:54:55 GMT

Ohhhhh,, mmm i was going to say i think this thread could be a bit risky and cause confrontation, eeek.

Re: Should Faith/Religion Have Such a High Value In Our Society?

evoman3957 — Wed, 11 Jun 2014 11:56:55 GMT

Religion is control, it makes you do what is deemed to be right; for fear of going to hell. It makes you ahere to an ethos laid down by others for the same reason. It can make you kill your fellow human beings, because some religions can be twisted to justify doing just that. Finally, to show its total idiocy, two sides will go to war..........shouting praise to the same God...........ridiculous !!

Give me a human being who does the right thing, because THEY believe it to be right; NOT because some religion, or even a law, has told them it is right.

Re: Should Faith/Religion Have Such a High Value In Our Society?

lambsy_uk — Wed, 11 Jun 2014 12:24:39 GMT

"Give me a human being who does the right thing, because THEY believe it to be right; NOT because some religion, or even a law, has told them it is right."

Amen to that!

Re: Should Faith/Religion Have Such a High Value In Our Society?

bankhaunter — Wed, 11 Jun 2014 13:04:58 GMT

Give me a human being who does the right thing, because THEY believe it to be right; NOT because some religion, or even a law, has told them it is right.

I suspect that the majority of those who practice a religion do just that and in order to do so either don't know about or deliberately ignore the somewhat more dubious morallity their religion actually preaches.

Religions can be a force for good, the Quakers for example did well in business because although they could be tough negociators they were very trustworthy, their word really was their bond, they probably didn't need a god to behave like that though but it would remind them of their purpose.

Nothing more annoys me than to be told that without the Bible no one can have any morals, as though the Ten Commandments weren't a bit late on the moral laws stage, there being others long before them.

I don't think a person should be respected for no better reason than they hold a position in a church, they are no different than anyone else.

Re: Should Faith/Religion Have Such a High Value In Our Society?

lambsy_uk — Wed, 11 Jun 2014 13:10:16 GMT

"Nothing more annoys me than to be told that without the Bible no one can have any morals, as though the Ten Commandments weren't a bit late on the moral laws stage, there being others long before them."

And Amen to that too!

Re: Should Faith/Religion Have Such a High Value In Our Society?

cee-dee — Wed, 11 Jun 2014 13:27:41 GMT

Well now, there were supposed to be 613 (although even that is open to argument).

The 10 Commandments were the result of a bit of pruning, much as all the Holy books have?

Re: Should Faith/Religion Have Such a High Value In Our Society?

saasher2012 — Wed, 11 Jun 2014 13:31:11 GMT

Several of these so called commandments have now been broken by the so called leaders in the Church hierarchy , so as to accommodate themselves & the changing society !.

Re: Should Faith/Religion Have Such a High Value In Our Society?

cee-dee — Wed, 11 Jun 2014 13:41:21 GMT

The people who firmly "believe" won't enter in to any rational discussion on the subject and in some countries any attempt to do so might prove fatal?

Re: Should Faith/Religion Have Such a High Value In Our Society?

saasher2012 — Wed, 11 Jun 2014 13:55:55 GMT

Is that I wonder because they are so sure of their faith or because they are frightened it may be proved to be false
If you try to ask pertinent questions you always seem to get fobbed off or as I stated before you are accused of bullying ?
In a lot of countries you are not allowed the freedom to ask questions , I'm afraid ours is fast becoming the same!.

Re: Should Faith/Religion Have Such a High Value In Our Society?

rose2008-2008 — Wed, 11 Jun 2014 14:02:42 GMT

I did believe in God when i was younger,, really because i thought i had too coming from a Bible bashing family!!. But as i have got older and more cynical i dont believe in God but i think there has got to be something at work,,,deciding things and our fates and terrible things that go on in the world. And good things too i suppose.

Re: Should Faith/Religion Have Such a High Value In Our Society?

astrologica — Wed, 11 Jun 2014 14:12:31 GMT

Hmmmm, the Rev. Paul Flowers comes to mind.....he held a prominent position in the Methodist Church! And almost brought down a big Bank! Drug taking, rent boys.......what a hypocrite!

Re: Should Faith/Religion Have Such a High Value In Our Society?

astrologica — Wed, 11 Jun 2014 14:16:32 GMT

I really like Lambsy's point about being a United fan! That's a good post Lambsy's...and food for thought.

Re: Should Faith/Religion Have Such a High Value In Our Society?

lambsy_uk — Wed, 11 Jun 2014 14:20:51 GMT

"The people who firmly "believe" won't enter in to any rational discussion on the subject and in some countries any attempt to do so might prove fatal?"

But I don't wish to deter them from their beliefs, I just want a reason why their beliefs or practices should take prcedence over all else!

I don't want to say "you believe in what?, you're having a laugh."

But I should be able to comfortably say "I'm sorry if our dress code/uniform policy clashes with you religious beliefs/practices but I'm afraid that's just the way it is and you will have to accept it because our policy takes precedence!

Or "I'm sorry our health and safety or working practices clash with your religious practices but health and safety and operational procedure take precedence"!

Or "I'm sorry if our consideration for Animal Rights clashes with you religious practices but animal welfare takes precedence"!

Or "I'm sorry if our working/opening hours upset you because they clash with you Sabath but we will not be taking this into consideration when scheduling."

Re: Should Faith/Religion Have Such a High Value In Our Society?

cee-dee — Wed, 11 Jun 2014 15:12:17 GMT

You won't deter them from their beliefs because they won't even enter in to a rational discussion!

Re: Should Faith/Religion Have Such a High Value In Our Society?

lambsy_uk — Wed, 11 Jun 2014 15:23:58 GMT

"You won't deter them from their beliefs because they won't even enter in to a rational discussion!"

As I said; I don't wish to deter them from their beliefs, just to understand that they do not take precedence over other considerations!