topic Re: Douglas Carswell's defection to Ukip. in The Round Table

Douglas Carswell's defection to Ukip.

merehazle — Fri, 29 Aug 2014 09:41:00 GMT

The Clacton MP's decision to join Nigel Farage is like the rest of his career, principled and decent writes Peter Oborne - Daily Telegraph's chief political commentator.

Well it certainly makes for some exitement at last...as the Tory whips scramble to secure party against further departures after the Eurosceptic MP triggers Clacton byelection.

And he is honourable and decent enough to deflect on principle.

Eight Tory MP's are reported to be talking to Ukip about deflection? (we will see) .....

Re: Douglas Carswell's defection to Ukip.

electric*mayhem*band — Fri, 29 Aug 2014 12:22:06 GMT

Reminds me of an 'Aerosmith' number:

And The Train Kept a Rollin'.

.....

Re: Douglas Carswell's defection to Ukip.

upthecreekyetagain — Fri, 29 Aug 2014 15:57:46 GMT

His voting record seems to match UKIP quite closely:

How Douglas Carswell voted on Social Issues

Voted very strongly against equal gay rights
Voted very strongly against smoking bans
Voted moderately against allowing marriage between two people of same sex
Voted a mixture of for and against laws to promote equality and human rights

How Douglas Carswell voted on Foreign Policy and Defence

Voted moderately for use of UK military forces in combat operations overseas
Voted very strongly for an investigation into the Iraq war
Voted very strongly for replacing Trident with a new nuclear weapons system
Voted moderately against more EU integration
Voted very strongly for a referendum on the UK's membership of the EU
Voted moderately against strengthening the Military Covenant

How Douglas Carswell voted on Welfare and Benefits

Voted strongly for reducing housing benefit for social tenants deemed to have excess bedrooms (which Labour describe as the "bedroom tax")
Voted very strongly against raising welfare benefits at least in line with prices
Voted strongly against paying higher benefits over longer periods for those unable to work due to illness or disability
Voted strongly for making local councils responsible for helping those in financial need afford their council tax and reducing the amount spent on such support
Voted strongly for a reduction in spending on welfare benefits
Voted strongly against spending public money to create guaranteed jobs for young people who have spent a long time unemployed

How Douglas Carswell voted on Taxation and Employment

Voted strongly for raising the threshold at which people start to pay income tax
Voted moderately for increasing the rate of VAT
Voted moderately for higher taxes on alcoholic drinks
Voted strongly for higher taxes on plane tickets
Voted moderately for lower taxes on fuel for motor vehicles
Voted very strongly against increasing the tax rate applied to income over £150,000
Voted moderately for encouraging occupational pensions
Voted moderately against automatic enrolment in occupational pensions
Voted strongly against a banker’s bonus tax
Voted very strongly against an annual tax on the value of expensive homes (popularly known as a mansion tax)
Voted very strongly for allowing employees to exchange some employment rights for shares in the company they work for

How Douglas Carswell voted on Business and the Economy

Voted strongly for reducing the rate of corporation tax
Voted moderately for measures to reduce tax avoidance
Voted a mixture of for and against stronger tax incentives for companies to invest in assets

How Douglas Carswell voted on Health

Voted very strongly against restricting the provision of services to private patients by the NHS
Voted very strongly for reforming the NHS so GPs buy services on behalf of their patients
Voted very strongly against smoking bans

How Douglas Carswell voted on Education

Voted moderately for greater autonomy for schools
Voted very strongly for raising England’s undergraduate tuition fee cap to £9,000 per year
Voted moderately for academy schools
Voted very strongly for ending financial support for some 16-19 year olds in training and further education
Voted very strongly for university tuition fees

How Douglas Carswell voted on Constitutional Reform

Voted moderately for reducing central government funding of local government
Voted very strongly for an equal number of electors per parliamentary constituency
Voted strongly for fewer MPs in the House of Commons
Has never voted on a transparent Parliament
Voted moderately for a more proportional system for electing MPs
Voted strongly for a wholly elected House of Lords
Voted strongly for local councils keeping money raised from taxes on business premises in their areas
Voted moderately against greater restrictions on campaigning by third parties, such as charities, during elections
Voted moderately for fixed periods between parliamentary elections
Voted very strongly for removing hereditary peers from the House of Lords
Voted moderately against transferring more powers to the Welsh Assembly
Voted strongly against transferring more powers to the Scottish Parliament
Voted moderately against more powers for local councils

How Douglas Carswell voted on Home Affairs

Has never voted on a stricter asylum system
Voted very strongly against allowing ministers to intervene in inquests
Voted very strongly against introducing ID cards
Voted strongly for the introduction of elected Police and Crime Commissioners
Voted moderately for requiring the mass retention of information about communications

How Douglas Carswell voted on Miscellaneous Topics

Voted moderately against greater regulation of gambling
Voted a mixture of for and against measures to prevent climate change
Voted very strongly against slowing the rise in rail fares
Voted very strongly for selling England’s state owned forests
Voted very strongly for capping civil service redundancy payments
Voted moderately against Labour's anti-terrorism laws
Voted very strongly for the privatisation of Royal Mail
Voted moderately against financial incentives for low carbon emission electricity generation methods
Voted very strongly against requiring pub companies to offer pub landlords rent-only leases
Voted strongly for restricting the scope of legal aid
Voted moderately for culling badgers to tackle bovine tuberculosis
Voted moderately for allowing national security sensitive evidence to be put before courts in secret sessions
Voted strongly against a statutory register of lobbyists
Voted very strongly for limits on success fees paid to lawyers in no-win no fee cases
Voted very strongly against restrictions on fees charged to tenants by letting agents
Voted moderately for the policies included in the 2010 Conservative - Liberal Democrat Coalition Agreement

Re: Douglas Carswell's defection to Ukip.

joe_bloggs* — Fri, 29 Aug 2014 21:22:42 GMT

There could be another reason he is joining ukip,he sees his tory seat likely to go to ukip,then decides to jump ship to save his seat,as well as his salary + expenses.Of course i could be totally wrong and he might just be the jolly decent and principled bloke some think he is...

And crafty dave ramping up the terror threat to "Be very,vey afraid" just to keep farage's smug face off the news,genius eh?

Re: Douglas Carswell's defection to Ukip.

al**bear — Sat, 30 Aug 2014 07:27:20 GMT

Carswell co wrote a book about dismantlying the NHS - so will be well at home inside UKIP

This was at the same Time as our current NHS Minister Jeremy Hunt also was co-author of another right-wing book, wanting the NHS dismantled, thing is, now he's actually doing it from the inside

Re: Douglas Carswell's defection to Ukip.

sir_arthur_strebe-grebling — Sat, 30 Aug 2014 10:11:20 GMT

@al**bear wrote:
Carswell co wrote a book about dismantlying the NHS - so will be well at home inside UKIP

Wrong again, Al. The book by Carswell and Hannan (http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Plan-Twelve-months-Britain/dp/0955979900) is not about the NHS. It argues for individuals to have more power and responsibility over their own lives instead of the state running everything. It's no surprise that Labour doesn't like that as they want to dictate what happens to us, including their Nationalised Death Service ... Stafford, Furness, Tameside, Basildon, etc ... all killing patients because the hospitals are run for the benefit of the staff rather than patients.

Just like Rotherham, Rochdale, Derby, Oxford, etc where the Labour councils are run for their own benefit and they don't care that thousands of girls are being drugged and raped.

Re: Douglas Carswell's defection to Ukip.

evoman3957 — Sat, 30 Aug 2014 11:06:51 GMT

You're wasting your time Arthur, to be a Labour "Die Hard" is to be like a stick of Brighton Rock; chop them in half and they've got Labour written right through them. It requires very little thought process, just requires adhering to years of conditioning. Some of us may actually see the merits of other political parties, but not the one party state Boys & Girls; makes having an open debate with them a waste of time really.

Re: Douglas Carswell's defection to Ukip.

merehazle — Sun, 31 Aug 2014 09:28:40 GMT

@evoman3957 wrote:
You're wasting your time Arthur, to be a Labour "Die Hard" is to be like a stick of Brighton Rock; chop them in half and they've got Labour written right through them. It requires very little thought process, just requires adhering to years of conditioning. Some of us may actually see the merits of other political parties, but not the one party state Boys & Girls; makes having an open debate with them a waste of time really.

Hi how are you?

Well yes... and like a stick of ROCK some have Torie written right through them. And it seems the boat is ROCKing:

As Ukip triumph in by-election bloodbath: Cameron faces a pasting from defector as shock poll shows Nigel Farage's staggering 44-point lead over the Tories.

Yes... this time wasting does require very little thought process... I agree

Re: Douglas Carswell's defection to Ukip.

bookhunter2007 — Mon, 29 Sep 2014 18:21:35 GMT

@evoman3957 wrote:

having an open debate with them a waste of time really.

To be fair, badly part-plagiarising Niemoller and quoting the Daily Express as a news source isn't really setting a high bar for a good standard of informed debate is it?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28964239

Re: Douglas Carswell's defection to Ukip.

evoman3957 — Sun, 31 Aug 2014 11:36:59 GMT

So pedantic, picking out a quote that's not perfect; even if the message is clearly the same. Picking out a newspaper article, from a medium from which so many get their news / information; along with many others. You're like the little Swiss Watch maker, dotting all the i's and crossing all the t's; working to a thousandth of a millimeter, making sure every little thing is perfect...........but ask Him what the TIME is and He NEVER knows.

Re: Douglas Carswell's defection to Ukip.

al**bear — Mon, 01 Sep 2014 04:49:26 GMT

Sorry Sir A, but large parts of that book were about dismantling the NHS

I do wish people would stop calling me a Labour diehard - I have never voted Labour in my life

My leanings were from tthe party that postulated the NHS and Welfare State , hint - it wasn't Labour

Re: Douglas Carswell's defection to Ukip.

evoman3957 — Mon, 01 Sep 2014 08:41:59 GMT

I never called YOU a Labour "die hard" by name Al...........it was an open ended "if the Cap fits wear it" comment. If I'm talking about an individual by name, I'll leave them in no doubt........don't worry.

Re: Douglas Carswell's defection to Ukip.

cee-dee — Mon, 01 Sep 2014 09:08:34 GMT

I wonder if UKIP will end up the same way as the Social Democrats and the Gang of Four? They were going to take the country by storm to hear them talk.

UKIP has all the same early indications of a few headline-grabbing ideas with no substance behind.

Re: Douglas Carswell's defection to Ukip.

merehazle — Mon, 01 Sep 2014 10:27:20 GMT

@bookhunter2007 wrote:
@evoman3957 wrote:
having an open debate with them a waste of time really.
To be fair, badly part-plagiarising Niemoller and quoting the Daily Express as a news source isn't really setting a high bar for a good standard of informed debate is it?

If anything, it would seem UKIP are the ones who predominantly appeal to those who are white, older and not particularly well-educated. Or more specifically, morons who swallow Daily Afraid headlines hook, line & sinker.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28964239

Oh, has he gone with his Niemoller???

Wow even MORONS. There's nothing like insulting millions of people. And just look at what he said: manmad: Perhaps Mr Creeky #3 we should VOTE on whether that is acceptable? yes, or no, will do. Try it just for once.

Well said EVO #10 with 3 kudos

Re: Douglas Carswell's defection to Ukip.

bookhunter2007 — Mon, 01 Sep 2014 10:36:37 GMT

@evoman3957 wrote:
So pedantic, picking out a quote that's not perfect; even if the message is clearly the same. Picking out a newspaper article, from a medium from which so many get their news / information; along with many others. You're like the little Swiss Watch maker, dotting all the i's and crossing all the t's; working to a thousandth of a millimeter, making sure every little thing is perfect...........but ask Him what the TIME is and He NEVER knows.

Oh dear. I think the Swiss Watch here is going to be the source that tells the correct time, as opposed to some broken Mickey Mouse watch given away free with the Daily Express.

It's quite ironic that Kippers often claim the "political establishment" are "out of touch" with reality. Yet "reality" to Kippers usually seems to comprise of an odd mix of fear, paranoia, tabloid headlines, and conspiracy theories.

@cee-dee wrote:
I wonder if UKIP will end up the same way as the Social Democrats and the Gang of Four? They were going to take the country by storm to hear them talk.

They effectively became the Lib Dems. I think "Cleggmania" just prior to the 2010 election is perhaps more comparable. Problem for ukip is that a significantly large proportion of their voter base are going to be worm food or wind-up in nursing homes within the next 15 years - Demographics are just not on their side.

http://proftimbale.com/2014/07/11/why-do-tories-defect-to-ukip-policy-network-16-june-2012-with-paul-webb/

Re: Douglas Carswell's defection to Ukip.

bookhunter2007 — Mon, 01 Sep 2014 10:43:18 GMT

@merehazle wrote:

Well said EVO #10 with 3 kudos

And? The ignorati agree with each other. Hardly a shocker is it?

Re: Douglas Carswell's defection to Ukip.

evoman3957 — Mon, 01 Sep 2014 11:04:50 GMT

Well Well if it isn't the little swiss watch maker.........otherwise known as "Billy no mates"

Re: Douglas Carswell's defection to Ukip.

evoman3957 — Mon, 01 Sep 2014 11:26:16 GMT

I would have asked for an invite to your next party, but I don't think there'll be room in the Phone Box.

Re: Douglas Carswell's defection to Ukip.

bookhunter2007 — Mon, 01 Sep 2014 11:34:56 GMT

Never mind. You could always ask Dr Who? Think of all that room in the Tardis, as well as the ability to transport back to the 1930s. You'd be right at home!

Re: Douglas Carswell's defection to Ukip.

kh-enas — Mon, 01 Sep 2014 11:39:40 GMT

Hello everyone,

Thread is going a bit off-topic, can we stay on topic and please refrain from interpersonal disputes as they go against our Community Values & Board Usage Policy.

Thanks 🙂

Enas

Community Moderator