topic Re: Nelson Mandela - The last 'great' World leader? in The Round Table

Nelson Mandela - The last 'great' World leader?

bookhunter2007 — Sat, 07 Dec 2013 14:55:19 GMT

To some, it could be said NM was a Saint-like inspiration to billions, whose will and determination brought down a Fascist regime and ideology, to others he'll always be a "terrorist" and does not deserve any acclaim whatsoever.

Do you think NM deserves to be considered the last 'great' World leader?

And considering the circumstances at the time, was the ANC’s 'armed struggle' inevitable in order to make any sort of 'progress' in overthrowing apartheid?

Re: Nelson Mandela - The last 'great' World leader?

cee-dee — Sat, 07 Dec 2013 15:56:00 GMT

If there's one thing that should be remembered, it's the difference between the NM regime to that of Southern Rhodesia!

Re: Nelson Mandela - The last 'great' World leader?

**forum-decorum** — Sat, 07 Dec 2013 16:37:15 GMT

He was a terrorist.

No I don't believe he was the last "great" world leader as none are able to solve the worlds problems, he may have had some good principles and stood up for the oppressed but he was only a mere imperfect human like us all.

Violence to fight violence IMHO is not acceptable.

Re: Nelson Mandela - The last 'great' World leader?

bookhunter2007 — Sun, 08 Dec 2013 13:06:34 GMT

@golden*nugget28 wrote:
He was a terrorist.

No I don't believe he was the last "great" world leader as none are able to solve the worlds problems, he may have had some good principles and stood up for the oppressed but he was only a mere imperfect human like us all.

Violence to fight violence IMHO is not acceptable.

Mandela himself said: "I am not a saint, unless you think of a saint as a sinner who keeps on trying.". And I think the last point is a principle Mandela upheld quite strongly upon his release from prison and rise to power. SA could quite have easily slid into full scale civil war or Mugabe-style land-grabs had someone else been at the helm.

The initial resistance to Apartheid was originally based upon passive resistance, but after the Sharpeville Massacre and proscription of the ANC it was pretty obvious forms of passive resistance were going to be violently crushed. Steve Biko took the 'peace' route & steered clear of the ANC and associations of violence, but still ended up being beaten to death by the police anyway. In the face of such tyranny, i'm not sure many options are left on the table.

imo the thing that distinguishes Mandela as a 'great' leader is the fact he spent nearly three decades as a political prisoner but emerged as a man who could quite have easily abused his sudden attainment of 'power'. Power does funny things to the best of them, yet NM used this power in a situation of civil strife to facilitate democracy, reconciliation, and to promote peace. SA is far from perfect today, but it could quite have easily turned out so much worse had Mandela not been the right man, at the right place, at the right time.

Re: Nelson Mandela - The last 'great' World leader?

margaret*e — Mon, 09 Dec 2013 08:00:15 GMT

Does anyone think the news coverage is OTT?.

Re: Nelson Mandela - The last 'great' World leader?

right-then-petal — Mon, 09 Dec 2013 09:26:28 GMT

just a tad

Re: Nelson Mandela - The last 'great' World leader?

cee-dee — Mon, 09 Dec 2013 10:33:55 GMT

I think that by now the whole reading/watching public are heartily sick of the excessive coverage and all they're doing it to cause people to turn the page, reach for the remote control to change channels or press the "mute" button.

There's absolutely no need for it and I expect that we're due for an overdose again next Sunday/Monday.

If NM were still here, I don't think he'd be too pleased.

Re: Nelson Mandela - The last 'great' World leader?

margaret*e — Mon, 09 Dec 2013 10:35:35 GMT

Glad it's not just me then.

Re: Nelson Mandela - The last 'great' World leader?

lhasa.two — Mon, 09 Dec 2013 11:55:05 GMT

I think you're right on that score but he wasn't the only one in government and some of his colleagues were not of the same calibre, unfortunately.

I think it was particularly difficult when the ANC took over, as the country was on the edge of bankruptsy. Once the sanctions were lifted things took off for the better but in recent years too much corruption has crept in, many broken promises to help the poorest, lack of infrastructure education and jobs still keeps many of the people NM wanted to help, excluded from the benefits they could have. In the end it's down to economics. With over 50 million people, with only 5-10% paying taxes, the power still lies with the rich whites despite the efforts of affirmative action which seems to me to have resulted in the Peter Principle in some cases.

It will be interesting to see what happens now that NM has died as he represented 'hope' for many.

I hope that Jacob Zuma - who has, I've always felt, played lip service to NM and is a very dangerous ignorant man - will not lead the people to a civil war.

SA is a very dangerous place to be. We take our personal safety for granted here but there you must have eyes in the back of your head at all times. The white farmers know this to their cost and in that respect it's similar to Zimbabwe. Saying that, it is one of the most beautiful breathtaking countries in this world and all the people I met there (black asian white) were terrific.

As for too much TV coverage?

No, I don't think so considering what NM achieved.

Who else do you know in politics who actually put his words into actions and lived his life living his beliefs.

As for being a terrorist, I don't agree that he was. He was fighting for a very fundamental right, that of equality with his fellow man, in his own country.

Re: Nelson Mandela - The last 'great' World leader?

right-then-petal — Mon, 09 Dec 2013 12:34:22 GMT

in short

not much has changed in South Africa since or after the change over

some rich the rest poorer than poor

news says their already fighting over his will wunder how much he left he was'nt in charge that long

Re: Nelson Mandela - The last 'great' World leader?

lost.parrot — Mon, 09 Dec 2013 15:58:54 GMT

I seem to recall one celeb immediately after death got huge coverage both on tv and the press, cant recall one complaint on here over that coverage, or his RIP thread also here, unlike FHG which was more critical....what was his name again....ah yes one jimmy savile
whatever became of that

I can only agree with the positives that have been put forward by bookhunter, and lhasaone, I am sure there would always have been certain aspects to Nelson Mandela for some to colour their opinion.

RIP a great leader and human being

Re: Nelson Mandela - The last 'great' World leader?

lhasa.two — Mon, 09 Dec 2013 17:49:09 GMT

petal,

Since the "change over" black and asian africans are FREE to vote and free to go wherever they like in their own country so I guess that's the BIG change. They are also free to vote the ANC out of power although I doubt they would... The ANC had to work very hard to convince all the various tribes people - there are about 40 - that they should be voted in. NM made that possible by his negotiating skills but now he's gone the situation could open up. People are getting impatient with the lack of improvements.

I am assuming NM would have acquired his money via his book "Long Road to Freedom", his various speaking trips abroad etc etc so I doubt his money came from being a member of the government, although perhaps he received an ex gratia payment as a form of compensation for his time spent in prison, tbh I can't remember.

Re: Nelson Mandela - The last 'great' World leader?

tommy.irene — Mon, 09 Dec 2013 18:13:50 GMT

BBC receives 1,350 complaints about 'excessive' coverage of Mandela's death after viewers are angered by decision to interrupt Mrs Brown's Boys

BBC has defended extent to which it featured death of Nelson Mandela
The corporation had by today received 1,350 complaints about coverage
Some viewers said emphasis reduced coverage of severe weather in UK

Re: Nelson Mandela - The last 'great' World leader?

right-then-petal — Mon, 09 Dec 2013 18:35:17 GMT

i agree there has been some good changes but not enough, and yes the book would have made a few skekels for him

but as i said a lot more fairness all round would be nice

Re: Nelson Mandela - The last 'great' World leader?

cee-dee — Mon, 09 Dec 2013 19:04:34 GMT

After that, the BBC still send their top news presenter to SA for a nice little junket and although the 6-o-clock news featured 14 minutes of "proper" news items first, there was then 8 minutes of non-news rubbish from SA.

The funeral is days away yet so I hope we're not going to be subjected to time-wasting garbage during the rest of this week. Be interesting to know just how much it is costing the BBC to fund the trips for the team and how they can justify that cost?

Re: Nelson Mandela - The last 'great' World leader?

ed_blackadder_1 — Mon, 09 Dec 2013 19:24:14 GMT

I must admit I did remark this morning about the coverage, what ever you thought of him it was news, but he is not being buried until the weekend and they are going on and on about it every news bulletin. Are we going down the Princess Diana hysteria route again?

As usual there is no news in the UK of more significance than this. By all means cover his death and funeral, but all those reporters to go over the same things again and again is overkill in my opinion, and who is paying for them to be there, oh that would be us then.

Re: Nelson Mandela - The last 'great' World leader?

lost.parrot — Mon, 09 Dec 2013 19:26:40 GMT

Likely includes some old dears who were expecting countdown, or repeats of 'It's a knockout' with that 'nice' Mr Hall.

As they say nay sense.....

Re: Nelson Mandela - The last 'great' World leader?

lhasa.two — Mon, 09 Dec 2013 22:35:11 GMT

@tommy.irene wrote:
BBC receives 1,350 complaints about 'excessive' coverage of Mandela's death after viewers are angered by decision to interrupt Mrs Brown's Boys
BBC has defended extent to which it featured death of Nelson Mandela
The corporation had by today received 1,350 complaints about coverage
Some viewers said emphasis reduced coverage of severe weather in UK

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2520782/BBC-receives-1-000-complaints-extensive-coverage-Nelson-Mandelas-death-viewers-angered-decision-interrupt-Mrs-Browns-Boys.html#ixzz2n0E0rh7o

Anything that interrupts Mrs Brown's Boys has a thumbs up in my book...

Re: Nelson Mandela - The last 'great' World leader?

charliebird123 — Fri, 13 Dec 2013 17:45:24 GMT

i normally look forward to watching QT,but last night turned it off.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2523273/BBC-bosses-flew-Labour-stalwart-Peter-Hain-BUSINESS-CLASS-sent-members-staff-film-Mandela-death-edition-Question-Time.html

Re: Nelson Mandela - The last 'great' World leader?

tommy.irene — Fri, 13 Dec 2013 17:56:48 GMT

@right-then-petal wrote:
in short
not much has changed in South Africa since or after the change over
some rich the rest poorer than poor
news says their already fighting over his will wunder how much he left he was'nt in charge that long

He left over £10,000,000 and the family are fighting over it..