Sellers - a lesson in contracts for you
Summary: mysslola shared their frustration with receiving deliveries via a specific courier instead of the one promised, emphasizing the potential breach of contract this change represents. theelench agreed, noting that it's been a long-standing issue with certain sellers switching couriers, and expressed concern over eBay's delivery practices. vinylscot pointed out assumptions about sellers’ intentions and clarified that buyers might not know which courier will be used. Other participants, like department28 and papso22, discussed the complications and lack of transparency in choosing delivery services, emphasizing the importance of clearly knowing which courier is being used. Recommendations included contacting sellers before purchase and using alternative methods like click and collect when possible.
Hi Sellers, I hope you're well. Sorry for the long post but I feel the need to say this.
I can't trust evri to deliver to my home as they always seem to chuck items on the floor by a neighbour's home, in a communal walkway; or outside the entrance to the communal walkway - each of these being obvious places where others can and have stolen the item, although the delivery person states in the tracking something along the lines of 'left in secure porch area' when I don't have a porch.
So, I look for auctions where it is states that the delivery will be by Royal Mail, even if it means paying more for the item. But what has happened to me twice (the 2nd occasion this week) is that despite the seller stating the item to be sent by Royal Mail in the auction, they've changed their mind after I've paid for it and sent the item by evri.
I've studied Law some years ago and, unless new law has changed things, as said to the last seller, when I've paid my money to them, this is my acceptance of their 'offer' - the two parts that make up a contract - with the details stated in the auction being the terms of their offer.
If the seller then wants to change a term of their offer, i.e. sending the item by another carrier than what was stated in the auction, as far as I'm aware, they should inform the buyer FIRST before sending to get the buyer's OK as that could be a breach of a term of that contract. Besides that it's general courtesy anyway.
pillarboxred
·2 weeks ago · EditedIt's good to hear from someone with a legal training. Most of us try to descry the legalities but probably get them wrong.
Online shopping and selling are convenient but not obligatory. Three of my last four trades have been disasters due to postal problems with Royal Mail. Should I "throw in the towel"? That seems to be the question.
papso22
·2 weeks ago · EditedMembers accept all parts of the user agreement when using ebay, as buyer or seller. Under the simple delivery part of that agreement ebay reserves the right to change the courier from the one the seller might have chosen. So for private sellers they have no idea whether the label they get using Simple Delivery will be the courier they thought it would be.
Business sellers should stick to the courier they say they will use.
If you have problems with deliveries try using click and collect instead.
Sellers will not see any note with a PayPal payment, they don't get paid by PayPal.
department28
·2 weeks ago'If you have problems with deliveries try using click and collect instead.'
I think in many cases It is the parcel arriving safely that is the main concern, which is why buyers are rightly unhappy if a business seller uses Evri when they have stated Royal Mail. At least with Simple Delivery, the private seller can choose to exclude Evri altogether.
If the private seller has both couriers enabled, eBay can decide which one the seller will get, but could they send a postage label for an excluded courier, in any circumstances?
jonatjonatjonat
·2 weeks ago"but could they send a postage label for an excluded courier, in any circumstances?"
Yes - and they do make that clear
"In certain cases, if your preferred carrier can't accept your item, we'll provide you with a label for a carrier you've opted out of in your settings. For example, if your parcel exceeds your preferred carrier's size or weight limits, we may send your item with an alternative carrier"
department28
·2 weeks agoI guess those of us that want to steer clear of Evri have to be careful not to list anything that might go over the max size for RM. Weight is ok, RM is up to 20kg, whereas Evri max weight is 15kg.
It's the longer items like broomsticks that would fall into Evri's clutches... 🧹🎃
mysslola
OP2 weeks ago · EditedI'm not sure that's correct re reserved right as I've had notification from eBay when a seller is using Simple Delivery and got the item sent to a store to click n collect instead.
With the seller I started the post on, they confirmed that it was them (not eBay) who changed the seller as they thought it was more suited for the delivery (in other words it was cheaper for them!).
papso22
·2 weeks agoObviously sellers can change the courier, whether they should is another issue. But as pointed out, ebay can also override any choice made by a private seller using simple delivery.
mysslola
OP2 weeks agoDue to the first time it happened, I've asked the seller before paying about the delivery or - where they have stated in the auction that it's by RM - added a note in my Paypal payment to please send by RM as stated in their auction.
I did the latter with the last seller, but when I contacted them after the so-called delivery, they said they saw my point and apologised, so hopefully the message is getting through.
department28
·2 weeks agoYes, it is very frustrating when a seller does not send by the service they have stated in the listing. Often the only reason I've bought from a particular seller is because of the courier & service they supposedly use. Then if they use a completely different service, I feel they have wasted my research time, as well as sending the item with a courier I did not want.
It looks like the only way to make absolutely sure is to message the seller before purchasing, asking them to confirm how the item will be posted. If they don't reply, don't buy!
With private sellers using Simple Delivery, you can usually work out by the postage price which service they are using - but of course it would be better if the actual service was visible on the listing, instead of the unspecified 'Standard Tracked Delivery'.
theelench
·2 weeks agoTrying to message the seller isn't as easy as it once was, how to contact them is made deliberately difficult by ebay IMO.
When I've tried to find out who is actually going to deliver by clicking "Delivery See Details" on the ad. , often it gives no details except 'standard' or 'express'. I'm guessing that applies to private sellers, while business sellers can show which options they use (and hopefully stick to).
Regular ebay users might be able to work out the delivery company by the price. But I'm not a regular on-line shopper and as a RM user don't know anything about prices for other companies.
Also last time I read anything about SD, if a seller deleted some of the options ebay offered them there was a 'penalty' increase in the price of those they preferred to use, making it more difficult to compare with RM retail (over the counter) prices.
And quite frankly, I've got better things to do than spend time fretting about who might be given the job of delivering a £200 glass vase and whether I'll get it in one piece or at all. Buying and selling should NOT be this complicated, involve any uncertainty, remove my choice and preferences leaving me to just accept that I'm buying a 'pig-in-a-poke'. It should be quick, easy and transparent, not the magical-mystery experience that ebay has turned it into.
theelench
·2 weeks agoThis has been happening for years and is probably happening to more buyers now that private sellers are using SD and either don't know how to delete evri, can't be bothered or don't care as they're covered for loss or damage by ebay.
I've bought from several sellers over the years who have quoted for RM delivery, only to find the parcel dumped on the doorstep (on an open walkway) by evri.
In the past I've suggested that leaving negative FB might focus their minds. Or that ebay should accept changing the quoted delivery company without the buyer's permission should qualify for a refund under INAD, as it has not been what I paid for.
Even if ebay does guarantee a full refund under SD it's still annoying as I buy mostly Collectables and if I'm buying something I've searched for for ages, I don't want my money back, I want the item.
I can't see any improvement in the situation now that ebay has taken control of delivery for private sellers and their main concern is not buyer satisfaction but filling their contracted quota to the various delivery companies to get their profit from the deal. It certainly does make me more wary of buying expensive items through ebay though, when their is no real guarantee that they will carry out their side of the bargain as stated in their advert.
vinylscot
·2 weeks agoYou seem to be making a lot of assumptions, based on how you think things might be. You often tell us you no longer sell on eBay, and rarely buy either, so you really have little relevant experience to draw on. Contacting a seller is ridiculously easy - couldn't be easier.
I agree with you that it is frustrating that buyers buying from private sellers don't see in advance who the courier will be, Evri will only be used if that's what the buyer chose (even if they didn't realise). It's therefore not the fault of the sellers. Sellers send by whatever service the buyer has paid for, using the label provided by eBay. As a buyer, you won't know if eBay changed the courier, as you don't know which courier would be used in the first place.
department28
·2 weeks ago'As a buyer, you won't know if eBay changed the courier, as you don't know which courier would be used in the first place.'
Which is why this aspect of Simple Delivery is so unsatisfactory. I'm sure most buyers rightly expect to see exactly which courier & service/s are on offer, when considering making a purchase. And as a seller, I would certainly prefer to be able to specify which courier & service I will be using - and be allowed to use whichever service I think is best for each item.
I can't think of any other online purchase I've made where it's not shown what postage method will be used.
jonatjonatjonat
·2 weeks agoData I found suggests 70% of consumers said that knowing the exact courier was “very important” to them
And 43% would abandon the checkout if they didn’t trust the courier.
That being said the largest ecommerce site in the uk doesn’t stipulate couriers so it works for some sites.
honeymonster007
·2 weeks agoOrdered some Autumn lawn food from the largest ecommerce site on Monday morning and come Tuesday afternoon it was delivered by Evri!
theelench
·1 week agoI rarely mention my seller status these days unless it's relevant to the topic, which I didn't think it was as I was replying to a buyers' OP, as a buyer.
I don't think there's anything wrong with a little assumption, speculation or opinion, it can help the discussion along, sometimes opening it up and making it more interesting.
You actually assume that because I've said in the past that I "rarely buy" anything on ebay, that is set in stone.
In fact during the last few months I've been quite busy and spent £999 on four coins plus another £100+ on albums and coin-flips to renovate my collections' storage. Something like 15 purchases in the last three months, check my FB and Left For Others if you doubt my figures.
But you're right it is frustrating that, as a buyer, I can only buy from business sellers if I want any certainty about who will deliver my purchases. Which I insist on when I have no confidence in my local evri driver not to leave parcels on doorsteps and just as often push letters through wrong boxes.
For that reason other coins (value £600+) have not been bought on ebay, but from other platforms who's delivery options I can rely on.
This is a situation that benefits business sellers and that is what you don't like being talked about. Preferring to give the impression that SD is great and benefits buyers and private sellers whereas, IMO, that is far from the truth and has reduced sales even further for many private sellers and probably reduced the number of private sellers on ebay because they won't use it.