Locked
Discussion interactions are currently paused.
Help - I think I'm being scammed
Hi
I'll try keep it short. I paid for a laptop a couple of days ago. The day after paying, the seller writes to me to say there is no charger included, but they have bought a new one which will come separately with a different delivery. I replied saying that the item description said the original charger was included, and asked for details about this supposed new charger because this laptop requires a very specific charger and third party/non-OEM chargers are notoriously unreliable. I also asked for the tracking details for this additional delivery. They went silent. I contacted ebay and they reviewed our exchange and said not to worry - you're covered. They also asked me to continue trying to contact the seller. I did - no reply. In the final message I made it clear that if the delivered items do not match the item described, then I will be claiming a refund per ebays policies. No reply, but shortly afterwards I was notified of a new listing - it's exactly, precisely the same laptop, down to very specific details about software installed and the origins of the laptop - but it's a completely different seller.
I suspect this is a scam and they're flipping the same "items" over and over. My gut says to apply for the refund before it even arrives and to simply not accept the delivery. I'm not sure if thats possible. What do I do, and how do I get my money back? I have a sinking feeling...
Thanks for any advice.
ant250206
OP10 months agoThe refund arrived in my account last night. Lost a bit on the exchange rate difference from 2 weeks ago but it's small change for the benefit of having this closed.
It looks like the seller has pulled his other listed items down without selling.
Thanks for your help everyone!
ant250206
OP10 months agoThe label was provided before the return case was opened. There has been no second label provided. I just noticed that the address is not consistent with the first label he sent. I have contacted ebay and they asked me for the first label details and tracking number - they have assured me that they accept this as showing the item has been returned?
*vyolla*
Mentor10 months agoPersonally, I'd wait the 3 business days (3 x 24hrs from the date and time of opening the return) for the option to ask eBay to step in appears, and would then state that you haven't received a returns label. eBay can then sort it out.
Problem with asking eBay CS is that you have no proof of what they tell you do (in the form of a live chat transcript), and if something goes wrong you'll be on your own.
ant250206
OP10 months agoThat's what I'm worried about. This seller is non-responsive too. I'm sure they've done this before. The only label they sent came before the case was opened. I do not want to capture that to the return in case it confuses things or compromises the claim.
I have made sure to record everything within the messages with the seller - including sharing tracking numbers and delivery confirmation and photos from Royal Mail. They have accepted the return but otherwise are completely silent.
papso22
Mentor10 months agoYou would have had nothing to worry about if you had ignored the first label and continued with the return case.
When you have a dodgy seller you need to make sure that ebay definitely has your back. Hopefully they will accept that the tracking on the seller's label proves delivery and help you get the refund. There being two addreses makes that more complicated though.
ant250206
OP10 months agoit seems that's exactly what they've just done. agent has just told me they're closing the case in my favour and refunding in full. it's a high-value purchase, so apparently it takes a bit longer. i'm quite ok to wait for a refund to be processed, but not okay to wait endlessly for someone who doesn't mean well to cooperate.
papso22
Mentor10 months agoThat's good news, please let us know when the refund hits your account.
By the way, there is no 'waiting endlessly' when you use the money back guarantee as intended because there are strict time limits. There is slso no need to message the seller.
ant250206
OP10 months agoSure, I'll update when it's resolved. I'm sure Customer Services wouldn't send me a message saying "we're closing the case in your favour and your refund will be paid back to you in the next 3 - 5 days" if they didn't mean it. (Would they??) I know I wouldn't have waited endlessly - but it was beginning to feel like that! I won't be contacting the seller again, but eBay has asked me to file a report about them.
I do want to thank everyone in this thread for your time and input - this has been quite stressful on both myself and my sister. £1300 is a substantial amount of money for me. You have offered sensible advice and support and I'm grateful for that. 🙏
ant250206
OP10 months agoWow - what a rollercoaster this is.
If you're wondering what happened here, I eventually got the seller to accept a refund. They sent me a label to return their box of problems to a certain address, then they used a different return address and name on the Refund Return Case ...
@papapap1 winding them up!? i've been clear, concise and civil the whole way through.
papso22
Mentor10 months agoYou needed to send the laptop to the address on the label provided through the case. Did you do that?
*vyolla*
Mentor10 months agoWith respect, you are complicating this so much.
If you've opened a not as described return then you must return the item via that process.
The seller should issue a pre-paid returns label, it'll tell you that in the return details and eBay will send you a message telling you to return the item because you've now received a label.
ant250206
OP10 months agoThe seller has not closed the "not delivered" case - and neither have I. I have asked them to issue a full refund and send a paid postage label so everything can be returned to them.
Their official return address is a 'ghost' office in Shoreditch.
61stephenuk
Mentor10 months agoYou should close the not received case and open a not as described as previously advised to get your refund,the seller cannot close the case only you can do that
ant250206
OP10 months agoWell, it just gets worse. The seller admits that the delivered parts are not genuine, but refuses to replace them. They also admit they "forgot" to pack some components, but refuse to supply those as genuine units.
They are now threatening to come to my house.
I'm done. How do I get out of this and get my cash back asap?
I can't hold of ebay - their 'call me' service just doesn't work and chat service is not available.
papso22
Mentor10 months agoReport the threats to the police.
You don't need to message the seller at all. It seems you may be winding them up.
ant250206
OP10 months agoSorry, I'm getting conflicting advice here - do I open a case of "parts missing" or "not as described"?
Interesting that ebay does not look at evidence. Re. the bundled pirated software, I suppose ebay would not be interested in that either then?
papso22
Mentor10 months agoBoth count as 'not as described', so it doesn't really matter.
Ebay are not interested in the minutiae, the money back guarantee is a blunt tool.
jckl1957
·10 months agoEbay offer a list of reasons when you open a return.
Some are 'change of mind' reasons.
If you don't get what you ordered, you would choose the 'best fit' reason from this list:
You could legitimately choose any of the bottom three.
ant250206
OP10 months agoI understand your points - however, the fact is that while this delivery may have happened, the item is still not fully received, as a key component is missing.
Because I am suspicious of this seller, I was careful to video the entire unpacking process in case of a situation like this.
jckl1957
·10 months agoThe only way of dealing with that would be to open a return stating parts were missing.
But the final decision would still lie with the seller - to offer a partial refund or to provide a label for you to return everything you have received.
papso22
Mentor10 months agoWhen something is missing from a delivery, the case has to be 'not as described'. Because you received something and tracking shows that, and item not received claim will be closed in the seller's favour.
Video evidence is neither needed nor looked at by ebay.
ant250206
OP10 months agoThanks for clarifying that. So I would close this and then open anothrr immediately as a Not As Described case, specifically and only as relates to the charger components (and possibly the software) and the seller would send a label so I can mail the incorrect charger components back to him?
jckl1957
·10 months agoNo.
If you open a return, it is for your entire purchase.
You did not buy the parts separately.
At the moment the decision as to whether to keep your purchase is yours.
If you open a return, the seller could accept the return in which case you will need to send back everything you received, for a full refund.
ant250206
OP10 months agoBut that would not be ideal - how would I go about securing just a partial refund to cover the costs of securing the charger components myself?
An alternative might be to leave this INR case open and ask seller to send the correct charger and a label so I can return the bad ones?
jckl1957
·10 months agoSecond point first - provided the seller added or updated the tracking on Ebay, it will show the item has been delivered to you so Ebay will close the INR case in the seller's favour.
If you start a return then the seller has the option of offering a partial refund. They can only make one offer which you can accept or refuse. You can of course message the seller before you start a return and suggest you would be happy to keep the item but want a refund to buy parts you feel are needed.
The seller may simply refuse and suggest you keep what you have bought and received or return the whole lot.
papso22
Mentor10 months agoThere is no point in keeping an INR case open after you have received an item. It no longer serves any purpose.
The seller may agree to a partial refund, they may not. If they don't the only option is return everything for a full refund. You cannot dictate what they do.
ant250206
OP10 months agoAn update on this - after filing the 'not delivered' report, the seller seemed to jump into action. the parcel was delivered today, but it's not that simple.
1. the serial number on the casing of the laptop does not match the serial number of the hardware (established via reports in the operating system). neither serial number matches the serial number provided originally. seller has volunteered that the laptop is not the same as the one we spoke about, but argues that this one is better. in one respect it seems to be. the mismatches are not a huge concern to me - it is clear that the case has been replaced at some point. the specs of the actual machine are nonetheless in line with what i expected.
2. the charger supplied has no power cord (±£25 new) and I suspect the cable (±£50 new) might be non-genuine (missing serial number). A non-genuine cable is problematic for properly regulating the charge.
3. software installed as bundled in the description is pirated. To be fair - the actual cost of the software licences would exceed £500, and I do not necessarily need the software at the moment.
How does one handle this? I think the machine itself is fine. The charger is unusable without a power cord and the connection possible not-genuine. The software is also unusable.
what a palaver!
jckl1957
·10 months agoYou can either:
Keep what you have received
Or
Open a return using the reason 'not as described'.
The seller can then provide a label, get everything back and refund you on return or they can offer you a partial refund.
ant250206
OP10 months agoYes I think a partial refund would be the simplest way. There's currently an open "item not delivered" case - could the partial refund be dealt with through this open case, which would avoid having to open a new one. Apparently ebay has already frozen the payment in the seller's account (they can't withdraw) based on how they've behaved to this point.
papso22
Mentor10 months agoNow the laptop has arrived you need to close this case and open one for item not as described. Ignore the warning that if you close the case you can't open another, that simply means one of the same type, you would be opening a different type of case and so it's allowed.
The money was not frozen because of how the seller behaved, it is standard practice when a case is opened.
jckl1957
·10 months agoSellers can't offer a partial refund through an INR case - a partial refund is offered on the understanding that the buyer keeps the item they have received and the seller returns a proportion of their payment.
To open a return, you will first need to close the INR case.
ant250206
OP10 months agoThe seller has posted a new listing for exactly the same laptop that I have ordered and not received but am still waiting for - according him, it's with the courier but the tracking does not reflect this. The details are 100% identical, and chances of there being two of these are slim to none - I've been trawling websites for over a week looking. Is this a known scam, "recycling" sales?
I don't understand where my money is currently - does ebay hold it in escrow until a sale is complete (which would make sense) or does this guy already have it, and can potentially cling on to it?
tressygirl
Mentor10 months ago@ant250206 wrote: I don't understand where my money is currently - does ebay hold it in escrow until a sale is complete (which would make sense) or does this guy already have it, and can potentially cling on to it?
If a seller's account is in good standing, the seller receives payment for the item within 24 hours. However, if you open a case within the allotted time that is, within 30 days of the item's last estimated date for delivery , then the seller has to refund all the money you paid in full.
Worth remembering those dates are only eBay's estimates and can be a tad optimistic. If the item is being sent to SA from the UK perhaps waiting another day or 2 before opening that Not Received case, as said, you do have 30 days.
There is a duplication rule that 2 identical items cannot be listed for sale at the same time, the seller just may have 2 identical items they wish to sell, and may be using the same photos and description.
Whatever their reason, you money is safe, by opening the case when the time comes.
@ant250206
ant250206
OP10 months agoNothing is being sent to SA. This is a UK sale, delivery in London - according to the seller, they and the item are also in London but the DPD history mentions Smethwick for some reason.
When I say the items are identical, I mean identical - the same condition, specifications, colour, accessories, preloaded non-standard software, origin story, etc. I have since noticed identical listings on other seller profiles too. And when I say the chances of there being two are slim I mean it - it would be like saying "I'm selling my grandfather's size 34 brown leather jacket with custom Harley Davidson logo on the left arm that he wore as an extra in Grease", and then once someone buys it, and before that person receives it, posting another listing for a size 34 brown leather jacket with Harley Davidson logo that your grandfather wore on the set of Grease... and then another seller profile lists a size 34 brown leather..... it's that unusual, and that's what I'm seeing going on.
I chatted with an ebay agent who reviewed the tracking history and message exchange with this seller and they recommended reporting a non-delivery immediately.
papso22
Mentor10 months agoAfter all the advice you have been given on here, you still decided to chat to ebay, who gave you the same advice!
At least they did that, too often they give the wrong advice.
ant250206
OP10 months agoI chatted to ebay to see if they could offer any more information about the tracking history, because it appears ebay and DPD have some sort of direct partnership/cooperation for deliveries. There was nothing more to it. The agent then looked at the messages exchange, as well.
Yes, they recommended immediately reporting, which I planned to do anyhow this morning based on the advice given here. So they just filed the report there and then during the chat.
ant250206
OP10 months agoAn update on this matter - if anyone cares to weigh in on suggestions to proceed - no delivery has been made, and still no update to the DPD status (which seems to have no update since Wednesday.) Also, no communications from the seller.
Is this considered not delivered (possibly where there was never an intention to deliver? In other words - fraud?
papso22
Mentor10 months agoYou should be able to open a case for item not received, tomorrow.
If it comes before you get a refund you can still open a case for item not as described.
ant250206
OP10 months agoThis is all I can see on the DPD tracking page. I haven't used DPD before. The way I'm reading this now, it suggests that DPD has not actually received the package from the seller yet??
Date & Time Location Description
papso22
Mentor10 months agoWhat date range did ebay give you for delivery when you bought the item?
ant250206
OP10 months ago18 - 19 September. I requested 19, because someone's home. Ebay says it's "arriving today!" but this tracking doesn't reflect the parcel ever being received by DPD, certainly not out for delivery today.
jckl1957
·10 months agoAll the advice you have received from this UK forum is based on UK rules - you should check it is the same in SA.
ant250206
OP10 months agoThis entire sale is taking place in the UK. There is no Ebay in SA.
jckl1957
·10 months agoI didn't know that - I just noticed your account was registered in SA.
Just to add to advice given, you can't request a partial refund and the seller would be reluctant to offer one if they have sourced and sent a charger.
So, assuming the laptop does arrive today.
Accept the parcel and check it over.
Wait a couple of working days for the charger to arrive.
If everything is ok and you are happy, you don't need to do anything further.
If the charger doesn't arrive, start a return case using the reason 'missing parts or pieces'.
Then, the seller can either accept the return and provide a label or they can offer you a partial refund.
ant250206
OP10 months agoRe the charger - the listing specifically mentioned the original charger, and that was a factor in me opting to go for this sale. If the charger provided is not an Apple unit, then (according to ebay customer support), this would qualify as a "doesn't match description" case - in which case a negotiated refund between seller and buyer could settle the matter. At least, this is what I was told by customer support? "Missing parts or pieces" would certainly be an option if the charger never arrives.
The fact is that there has been no tracking number provided for this 'second delivery' (so, as far as I know, the charger hasn't been sent) and the seller is flatly unwilling/unable to disclose the brand and type of charger they claim to have sourced - these are both concerns. This sale is tied to a single delivery so, as far as ebay understands the sale, when the delivery is made this means all items and accessories in the listing have been delivered. The seller buying a charger and sending it to themselves only to re-send to the buyer address is irrational - they would surely have sent the item directly to the buyer's address and saved themselves the cost?
It all smacks strongly of a run-around. I can't see what else there is to do but wait. If the serial number doesn't match with what I was told, then I'm not even going to turn the device on - it will be an instant refund request.
john1297576
Mentor10 months agoIt should all be based on what arrives in first package, there is no provision in the rules to allow two packages for one order, as that would mean two lots if tracking and ebay would only accept one delivery, so assuming anything arrives stick to a not as described case, for missing parts.
If this is done and returned, you get your refund.
If there is a charger arrives later, sounds unlikely, then it will be up to seller to pay for sending it back, it will be nothing to do with ebay.
ant250206
OP10 months agoAnother odd thing is that the DPD tracking on ebay mentions Smethwick in the history. Seller claimed to be in London and initially said they could hand deliver the item on the day.
ant250206
OP10 months agoThank you for your input and advice. I am indeed concerned that accepting a refund offer will allow them to cancel the delivery before returning the money - obviously that would be very bad. Not sure if I should reply at all - can they initiate a cancellation if I have not agreed to it?
The initial delivery was scheduled for yesterday but I requested today because it wasn't possible to receive yesterday. Manually updated DPD myself to be sure.
If the item turns out to be legit, I may request a partial refund for the charger which is missing and the seller still refuses to confirm that it is an OEM device per the listing.
I have saved all our messages and the images sent which show specs and serial numbers in case the seller tries to delete those. I don't think the seller can delete the original item listing? I'm thinking of video recording the entire package opening process to obviate any counterclaims about what was sent.
I sound/feel like a paranoid person but I don't think I'm being unreasonable or over cautious in this instance.
papso22
Mentor10 months agoSellers can cancel of their own volition which then generates a refund.
Wait and see what turns up.
red_magpie
Mentor10 months agoIf you refuse delivery you will render the transaction ineligible for eBay's money back guarantee!
Just do as you have been advised, keep a cool head and if necessary open a case for a refund. Any problems ask here again.
ant250206
OP10 months agoThank you. I could have really put my foot in it. Should I accept both deliveries, then, if they come? It's such an odd thing to do - sending two packages - it does feel like it might be a way to dodge claims of "items not fitting the description"
ant250206
OP10 months agoOvernight I've had a message from the seller - very defensive and saying that the charger has not even been sent yet.
They have offered me a full refund. There are red flags all over this sale. Do I accept the refund offer and decline the delivery? I want to nip this in the bud and get clear of it asap.
papso22
Mentor10 months agoThe only safe time to decline the delivery would be after a full refund has already arrived.
Wait for the delivery, there only needs to be one, open the package, and then use the money back guarantee if you need to, to make a claim for item not as described.
When was the delivery date ebay gave you?
ant250206
OP10 months agoI'm expecting to open the package and find a completely different machine from what I paid for - the charger issue is what really got my hackles raised, so I started asking more questions (with no answers). It's terrible if this is going on - there are legit sellers here who I could have supported but now I'm sat with all my budget spent, hoping for a refund, unable to do anything until it's back in my account and unlikely to feel comfortable buying from anyone on ebay again.
I have submitted reports on the listings as well, now, trying to explain why I think it's a scam operation. I hope ebay takes reports seriously. Does ebay kick sellers off the platform, or contact the police if they suspect a scam?
I don't know what to do about this alleged second delivery of a charger - it's not linked to the sale at all, and no tracking info. Very messy. The tracking with DPD is also not great - I have no idea where the parcel actually is, or when to expect it.
**peaseblossom**
Mentor10 months agoDon't refuse delivery. That could complicate things. If it does arrive start a return on here:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/buying/returns-refunds/return-item-refund?id=4041
select "Doesn't match description" and escalate it to eBay after 3 complete working days. Seller will have to pay for the return postage label which you will receive via ebay. And you will get a full refund once it's sent back. Only attempted delivery back to seller is required for returns.
If you don't receive it by the estimated delivery date on the listing select "Report an item you didn't receive" on here:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/buying/returns-items-not-received-refunds-buyers/get-help-item-hasnt-arrived?id=4042&st=3&pos=5&query=Get%20help%20with%20an%20item%20that%20hasn%27t%20arrived&intent=ITEM%20NOT%20RECEIVED&
and escalate it 3 complete working days later.
ant250206
OP10 months agoDo you think I'm right to b worried? Do you think I should open the pack at all? The seller who has posted this "new" listing has reviews of people saying they received completely different items from the listing, but also glowing reviews from others. I mean, can reviews even be trusted? I have a record of our back and forth messaging. I asked a lot of questions. This includes screenshots of system specs, serial numbers, and battery health - and confirmation in writing that the screenshots belong to the item being sent. If any one of these doesn't match, that's surely grounds and evidence enough for a full refund?
Any idea how long the refund takes?
Thanks for your time, I really appreciate the help.
**peaseblossom**
Mentor10 months agoeBay nearly always side with buyers. For "not as described" returns you don't really need any proof. You just open the case within 30 days of delivery date and escalate as soon as possible. You receive a paid-for postage label and you get the refund as soon as the item arrives back with the seller.
I don't think you need to worry because you will get your money back. But it is annoying if the item was listed with original charger and there isn't one.