💬 Weekly Chat with the eBay Community Team- 27.09.23 @2pm | Chat with the eBay Community Team | eBay UK

💬 Weekly Chat with the eBay Community Team- 27.09.23 @2pm | Chat with the eBay Community Team | eBay UK

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💬 Weekly Chat with the eBay Community Team- 27.09.23 @2pm

Hi everybody!

The Community Chat will open at 2pm and will remain open until 3pm on Wednesday. After that it will be closed for further questions. Of course, we will continue to take care of answering any questions that may still be unanswered—We’ll get to everything as quickly as possible.

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Your eBay Community Team

community-team@ebay eBay Staff

eBay Staff

eBay Staff0 View listings

Posted 2 years ago · Edited 2 years ago·Last reply 2 years ago

16 comments

ducatimondo

·2 years ago

@ducatimondo wrote:
@marco@ebay wrote:
Hi @ducatimondo,

I've just got an update on this, please see below.

eBay’s tax methodology is to remove the VAT at the rate specified by the seller on the item, and then add VAT based on the delivery country.

The logic for this is that if a seller has listed a VAT inclusive price, then they no longer are responsible for the VAT and instead eBay has to take responsibility.
Example:
VAT registered Seller lists item GBP100, and indicates that they have applied 20% VAT. As the UK works on an inclusive pricing, this means GBP100 is the VAT inclusive price (100% seller revenue + 20% VAT).
We impute UK VAT out at 20%, giving seller revenue of GBP83.33, VAT of 16.67
We then calculate the VAT payable by eBay based on the delivery address e.g. 23% based on IE buyer address. So buyer with an IE delivery address will be charged 102.50 – 83.33+IE VAT 19.17

It is for this reason we ask VAT registered sellers to provide the VAT rate that they use in their pricing when listing items; if the seller provides a different VAT rate (e.g. a rate of 25% for Denmark) then we impute that rate.

This is the logic that has been in place since 1 January 2021 for the UK and 1 July 2021 for the EU.

Regarding VAT on postage, Royal Mail (or a similar universal postal operator) does not charge VAT. However, the seller wouldn't be a postal carrier and so is required to account for VAT on their postage charges. Our logic therefore assumes that a seller's shipping pricing is based on a VAT inclusive price for postage also. HMRC have some guidance here which may be of help.

Please note that you will not able to reply here, as this chat is already closed.

Thank you,
Marco
Hi Marco,

Continuing on from our discussion and my question last week regarding the VAT on shipping for international items, I have quoted your reply above that came after the thread had closed.

Regarding the highlighted section above, are you really gambling on VAT for millions of transactions based on an assumption?
Allow me to clarify something for you here, that assumption is wrong in every single case.
You also mention that the seller is not a postal carrier and therefore has to account for VAT. Yes, this is true and easy, there is NO VAT in international postage for anyone at all that is shipping from the UK to anywhere that is not the UK, albeit a private seller, a business seller, a postal operator or not postal operator. This has been true for the entire UK since 1st Jan 2021. It has been the exclusive responsibility of eBay to apply this correctly since 1st July 2021

I might also add that you are also incorrect in your statement that "Royal Mail (or a similar universal postal operator) does not charge VAT"
It is more accurate to say that the retail side of Royal Mail, trading as Post Office Counters Ltd that deal directly with the public do not charge VAT on the Royal Mail products they sell, such as 1st class and 2nd class post.
We use Royal Mail 48, Royal Mail 24, Royal Mail Special Delivery, etc on our OBA account and are charged a VAT element to all of the services we are provided by Royal Mail, as we buy them from Royal Mail and not the Post Office.
It seems that eBay have no idea about UK tax law or how to implement it.

Back to eBay's assumption about the postage including VAT...
Are you basing this on if the item contains VAT, so the listing says 20% VAT applicable and then applying or more accurately removing 20% VAT from the postage on said item?
Or are you assuming that the postage will contain 20% VAT irrespective of the VAT status of the item. So would a 0% VAT rated item like a book or children's clothing have no VAT removed from the postage? Or would the same item, with no VAT in the item have 20% VAT removed from the item anyway, even though the product is 0% VAT rated?
Of are you basing this all on the seller's status and only removing VAT from the postage if the seller is a VAT registered business.
Are you expecting me as a seller to add VAT on all my international postage, so you can remove it, thus breaching international law?
Are you then expecting us all to over charge buyers or more accurately charge buyers VAT on postage when eBay is not being VAT controller through IOSS or the other areas such as some states of USA, Singapore, Australia, etc? I ask this as when eBay change the taxes on the item, you do not do this for all sales, only those you are now VAT controller for. This is a moving table, as you just decide to implement new ones without warning, such as recently adding Jersey into the sales you are now controlling VAT on?

The only way to do this correctly is to use the long time established and internationally recognised and implemented rule that there is no VAT on international postage from the UK to anywhere and not have sellers guess what ever you feel like doing on any given day, based on an assumption and without even asking us.

Can you check with your relevant team why they are making this assumption and if they plan to change to so that it works correctly; no VAT from anyone on international postage.

Apologies this is posted so late in the hour, I have been writting this as I can in between trying to keep up with customers in the shop and on the phone, so do not expect to be able to reply again.

Thanks
Russ

Hi @ducatimondo,

I've just got an update on the above from the VAT team.

1) I've been confirmed that sellers are required to list their prices including all appropriate taxes and duties.

2) Unless a seller is listing only for the export market, a seller should be including UK VAT in their item and in their associated postage prices. VAT registered business sellers are accordingly asked to list their items + the VAT rates they included on their pricing.

3) It is on this understanding, that when an item is shipping to an EU address from the UK, we remove a VAT value based on the VAT rate specified by a seller on the item

4) and on the associated shipping.

5) If a seller is not including UK VAT in their pricing, they should list with 0% VAT. eBay will then add VAT at the appropriate rate based on the delivery address.

Much of this information is set out on our Help Page “Your VAT Obligations” – the section on VAT calculation methodology here.

Please note that you will not be able to provide a reply here, as this chat is already closed.

Thank you,
Marco

Good afternoon Marco,

Continuing on from my post last week and as always, appreciate the reply at the end of the above.

I have broken your reply from last time into different points so that I can address each directly below:

1) Yes, we are aware of our obligations and do list our prices including appropriate VAT. The taxes and duties are different for shipping than they are for an item, as one is a service and the other is a product. For the UK, the item may or may not have VAT in it, certain items are exempt from VAT. The postage always has VAT in it for us, but this does not apply to all sellers as it depends in which service the seller us using to send the item and is even affected by who they are buying that service from.

2) We do not list only for export, all of our items are listed on eBay UK and have international shipping options on the majority of them. We do list our items including the correct UK VAT, albeit 20% or 0% as dictated by the item. For the UK market, all of our postage already does include UK VAT irrespective to the product, our UK shipping always includes VAT. This is not true or all sellers, see point 1)

3) Yes, this is correct, the VAT from the UK item sale price should be removed if the item is being shipped from the UK to an EU address.

4) No, there is no VAT in international postage

5) This should be determined by the VAT registration status of the seller on an account level. If the seller is a private seller, there should be an option to choose this or otherwise should be automatically determined from the eBay user’s account. So a private seller should have no obligation to tell you per account level or per item level as there is never any VAT in an item from a private seller. If the seller is a business seller, the determination should be same as the private seller, only when that business seller does not declare VAT registered status. If the business seller is declaring a VAT registered status, then the item price should be affected for VAT based on the VAT rate specific to each item listed. There is however never any VAT in international postage for any item being shipped from UK to anywhere else in the world. This is not affected by the seller’s status or by the taxable status of the item or by the destination the item is being shipped to. There is never, ever any VAT in international postage to anyone outside the UK, from anyone inside the UK

It is this last point and point 4) where the issue is and that eBay have failed to acknowledge. You keep saying that you are removing the VAT from the item and postage, there is never any VAT in the international postage!!
The VAT in the item is determined by the item and the seller, the VAT in th epostage os not, there is no VAT in international postage for items sent out of the UK.

If you or the VAT team need any additional info that will help you understand VAT and your obligations in the UK, you can find more information at the link below:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/vat-guide-notice-700

Below you can also find more information of the Royal Mail services, where Royal Mail clearly state at the bottom of the international postage pages that “VAT is payable at the zero rate for EU and ROW destinations.“

https://www.royalmail.com/sites/royalmail.com/files/2023-04/royal-mail-business-price-guide-april-2023-v4.pdf

Thanks Russ

marco@ebay

eBay Staff

Admin2 years ago

Hi @ducatimondo, thanks for getting back to me on this.

I appreciate the information given. However, we would stick to the above which is the information provided by the VAT team.

Thank you,

Marco

pg_kicks

·2 years ago

I know you will say the reporting feature is woring fine so Im wastign ym time here but here goes.

I reported a seller multiple times over multiple weeks for selling fake items, nothing was ever done, I then had a call from the Pro-Trader team and we got talking about issues, I mentioned everything I have told this weekly chat numerous times but she (I dont wish to say her name on the boards) took ownership of the issue and contacted the correct departments and wihtin 24 hours the account was down so nobody else was purchasing fake items.

This clearly shows its the report system thats down as once its passed to the correct team the listings are removed. I will happily talk to any member in private message, if you'd rather not discus it on the boards and in public but just saying please report is pointless and basically insulting as I now have proof that doesnt work.

katie@ebay

eBay Staff

2 years ago

@pg_kicks wrote:

I know you will say the reporting feature is woring fine so Im wastign ym time here but here goes.

I reported a seller multiple times over multiple weeks for selling fake items, nothing was ever done, I then had a call from the Pro-Trader team and we got talking about issues, I mentioned everything I have told this weekly chat numerous times but she (I dont wish to say her name on the boards) took ownership of the issue and contacted the correct departments and wihtin 24 hours the account was down so nobody else was purchasing fake items.

This clearly shows its the report system thats down as once its passed to the correct team the listings are removed. I will happily talk to any member in private message, if you'd rather not discus it on the boards and in public but just saying please report is pointless and basically insulting as I now have proof that doesnt work.

Hi @pg_kicks,

I'm glad action was able to be taken when you spoke to our teams on the phone.

Reporting through the site is the best way to report an item. Our vero team also works with brands to remove items belonging to them.

I am going to be transparent, there are many reports coming through all day and at the moment we do not respond to each report even if action is taken. Sometimes our agents can go above and beyond to get something actioned but it is not a sustainable way of reporting items.

I hope this helps to acknowledge what you experience while also clarifying that we do need to recommend members to report via the correct channels.

Thanks,

Katie

pg_kicks

·2 years ago

50 reports is enough surely to take donw fake sellers? How many reports do ebay expect to get before they act? The listings are obviously fakes, selling for 25% of resale prices eBay just care for the fees and thats it. sorry but its a fact now.

I'd much rather speak via PM if possible as this will be locked soon and that response isnt acceptable, you have basically said what I said you'd say, passing the buck.

katie@ebay

eBay Staff

2 years ago

@pg_kicks wrote:

50 reports is enough surely to take donw fake sellers? How many reports do ebay expect to get before they act? The listings are obviously fakes, selling for 25% of resale prices eBay just care for the fees and thats it. sorry but its a fact now.

I agree 50 is plenty, it is important to remember the large volume of reports.

Our teams work around the clock to try to ensure any listings against our policies are removed.

Thanks,

Katie

mteconlineshop

·2 years ago

Is there still a issue with listings? I have 3678 listings in the shop but today only 3022 are visable, this changes daily, sometimes a few more, sometimes less

marco@ebay

eBay Staff

Admin2 years ago

@mteconlineshop wrote:

Is there still a issue with listings? I have 3678 listings in the shop but today only 3022 are visable, this changes daily, sometimes a few more, sometimes less

Hi @mteconlineshop, thanks for your post.

We don't have any reports suggesting this issue at the moment, could you please share a screenshot of the issue in question, so I can take a look?

Thank you,

Marco

mteconlineshop

·2 years ago

Hopefully the 2 Screenshots show what i mean

marco@ebay

eBay Staff

Admin2 years ago

@mteconlineshop wrote:

Hopefully the 2 Screenshots show what i mean

Lovely, thanks for that @mteconlineshop.

Someone else reported this before, but we couldn't replicate it. The same person that reported this then confirmed that it was showing the right results a few hours later. While I understand your concern, I can confirm that all your listings are active and visible to everyone.

If you clear your caches and cookies, you should get the right number.

Thank you,

Marco

ojewellery

·2 years ago

The business seller board has been a really useful tool for my business over the last few years and there are some really useful posters who've helped me navigate the odd tricky situation.

Currently, there is a lot of discontent in the whole of the retail trade and this is reflected in the forums.

Would eBay/ the forum mods consider having a business chat section of the business board to move threads that are active discussions, but have completely gone away from solving or responding to an initial enquiry. I love that the forums are lightly moderated but the chat rather than constructive threads are dominating and mean the constructive function is diminished.

marco@ebay

eBay Staff

Admin2 years ago

@ojewellery wrote:

The business seller board has been a really useful tool for my business over the last few years and there are some really useful posters who've helped me navigate the odd tricky situation.

Currently, there is a lot of discontent in the whole of the retail trade and this is reflected in the forums.

Would eBay/ the forum mods consider having a business chat section of the business board to move threads that are active discussions, but have completely gone away from solving or responding to an initial enquiry. I love that the forums are lightly moderated but the chat rather than constructive threads are dominating and mean the constructive function is diminished.

Hi @ojewellery, thanks for your post.

That's not something we are considering at the moment, but I will pass your feedback on, so that can be taken into consideration. On the other hand, we are constantly monitoring all boards/threads to try prevent them from going off topic, so users can focus on answering/resolving the original query rather than discussing something different.

Thank you,

Marco

moerugomi

·2 years ago

The new eBay page format is no-longer displaying white colors. This is very detremental when selling white items. They apear grey.

Left is photo uploaded on ebay listing, right is the original overlayed.

katie@ebay

eBay Staff

2 years ago

@moerugomi wrote:

The new eBay page format is no-longer displaying white colors. This is very detremental when selling white items. They apear grey.

Left is photo uploaded on ebay listing, right is the original overlayed.

Hi @moerugomi,

This is a test our teams are running at the moment. About 10% of eBay traffic is involved.

They are making changes to the overall look and feel of the item pages and this is included in that.

I spoke to them about this recently after a weekly chat so I will add your feedback to that.

Thanks,

Katie

ak_craft_crazy

·2 years ago

Is there anything in the pipeline which will show sellers which postage option the buyer has chosen? As currently in the seller up for items ready for dispatach there is nothing that says which postage option was chosen. This means we have to click into each and every order to just check the postage. Like many other business sellers we do not use ebay postage.

marco@ebay

eBay Staff

Admin2 years ago

@ak_craft_crazy wrote:

Is there anything in the pipeline which will show sellers which postage option the buyer has chosen? As currently in the seller up for items ready for dispatach there is nothing that says which postage option was chosen. This means we have to click into each and every order to just check the postage. Like many other business sellers we do not use ebay postage.

Hi @ak_craft_crazy, thanks for your post.

For the moment that information would only be available in the order details. However, I will pass your feedback on to the service design team, so this can be taken into consideration for future updates.

Thank you,

Marco.