💬 Weekly Chat with the eBay Community Team- 20.09.23 @2pm | Chat with the eBay Community Team | eBay UK

💬 Weekly Chat with the eBay Community Team- 20.09.23 @2pm | Chat with the eBay Community Team | eBay UK

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💬 Weekly Chat with the eBay Community Team- 20.09.23 @2pm

Hi everybody!

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eBay Staff

eBay Staff0 View listings

Posted 2 years ago · Edited 2 years ago·Last reply 2 years ago

21 comments

ducatimondo

·2 years ago

@marco@ebay wrote:
Hi @ducatimondo,

I've just got an update on this, please see below.

eBay’s tax methodology is to remove the VAT at the rate specified by the seller on the item, and then add VAT based on the delivery country.

The logic for this is that if a seller has listed a VAT inclusive price, then they no longer are responsible for the VAT and instead eBay has to take responsibility.
Example:
VAT registered Seller lists item GBP100, and indicates that they have applied 20% VAT. As the UK works on an inclusive pricing, this means GBP100 is the VAT inclusive price (100% seller revenue + 20% VAT).
We impute UK VAT out at 20%, giving seller revenue of GBP83.33, VAT of 16.67
We then calculate the VAT payable by eBay based on the delivery address e.g. 23% based on IE buyer address. So buyer with an IE delivery address will be charged 102.50 – 83.33+IE VAT 19.17

It is for this reason we ask VAT registered sellers to provide the VAT rate that they use in their pricing when listing items; if the seller provides a different VAT rate (e.g. a rate of 25% for Denmark) then we impute that rate.

This is the logic that has been in place since 1 January 2021 for the UK and 1 July 2021 for the EU.

Regarding VAT on postage, Royal Mail (or a similar universal postal operator) does not charge VAT. However, the seller wouldn't be a postal carrier and so is required to account for VAT on their postage charges. Our logic therefore assumes that a seller's shipping pricing is based on a VAT inclusive price for postage also. HMRC have some guidance here which may be of help.

Please note that you will not able to reply here, as this chat is already closed.

Thank you,
Marco

Hi Marco,

Continuing on from our discussion and my question last week regarding the VAT on shipping for international items, I have quoted your reply above that came after the thread had closed.

Regarding the highlighted section above, are you really gambling on VAT for millions of transactions based on an assumption?
Allow me to clarify something for you here, that assumption is wrong in every single case.
You also mention that the seller is not a postal carrier and therefore has to account for VAT. Yes, this is true and easy, there is NO VAT in international postage for anyone at all that is shipping from the UK to anywhere that is not the UK, albeit a private seller, a business seller, a postal operator or not postal operator. This has been true for the entire UK since 1st Jan 2021. It has been the exclusive responsibility of eBay to apply this correctly since 1st July 2021

I might also add that you are also incorrect in your statement that "Royal Mail (or a similar universal postal operator) does not charge VAT"

It is more accurate to say that the retail side of Royal Mail, trading as Post Office Counters Ltd that deal directly with the public do not charge VAT on the Royal Mail products they sell, such as 1st class and 2nd class post.

We use Royal Mail 48, Royal Mail 24, Royal Mail Special Delivery, etc on our OBA account and are charged a VAT element to all of the services we are provided by Royal Mail, as we buy them from Royal Mail and not the Post Office.

It seems that eBay have no idea about UK tax law or how to implement it.

Back to eBay's assumption about the postage including VAT...

Are you basing this on if the item contains VAT, so the listing says 20% VAT applicable and then applying or more accurately removing 20% VAT from the postage on said item?

Or are you assuming that the postage will contain 20% VAT irrespective of the VAT status of the item. So would a 0% VAT rated item like a book or children's clothing have no VAT removed from the postage? Or would the same item, with no VAT in the item have 20% VAT removed from the item anyway, even though the product is 0% VAT rated?

Of are you basing this all on the seller's status and only removing VAT from the postage if the seller is a VAT registered business.
Are you expecting me as a seller to add VAT on all my international postage, so you can remove it, thus breaching international law?

Are you then expecting us all to over charge buyers or more accurately charge buyers VAT on postage when eBay is not being VAT controller through IOSS or the other areas such as some states of USA, Singapore, Australia, etc? I ask this as when eBay change the taxes on the item, you do not do this for all sales, only those you are now VAT controller for. This is a moving table, as you just decide to implement new ones without warning, such as recently adding Jersey into the sales you are now controlling VAT on?

The only way to do this correctly is to use the long time established and internationally recognised and implemented rule that there is no VAT on international postage from the UK to anywhere and not have sellers guess what ever you feel like doing on any given day, based on an assumption and without even asking us.

Can you check with your relevant team why they are making this assumption and if they plan to change to so that it works correctly; no VAT from anyone on international postage.

Apologies this is posted so late in the hour, I have been writting this as I can in between trying to keep up with customers in the shop and on the phone, so do not expect to be able to reply again.

Thanks

Russ

marco@ebay

eBay Staff

Admin2 years ago

Thanks for your question, @ducatimondo.

I will check with them, and get back to you as soon as I get an update on this.

Thank you,

Marco

marco@ebay

eBay Staff

Admin2 years ago

@ducatimondo wrote:

@marco@ebay wrote:

Hi @ducatimondo,

I've just got an update on this, please see below.

eBay’s tax methodology is to remove the VAT at the rate specified by the seller on the item, and then add VAT based on the delivery country.

The logic for this is that if a seller has listed a VAT inclusive price, then they no longer are responsible for the VAT and instead eBay has to take responsibility.

Example:

VAT registered Seller lists item GBP100, and indicates that they have applied 20% VAT. As the UK works on an inclusive pricing, this means GBP100 is the VAT inclusive price (100% seller revenue + 20% VAT).

We impute UK VAT out at 20%, giving seller revenue of GBP83.33, VAT of 16.67

We then calculate the VAT payable by eBay based on the delivery address e.g. 23% based on IE buyer address. So buyer with an IE delivery address will be charged 102.50 – 83.33+IE VAT 19.17

It is for this reason we ask VAT registered sellers to provide the VAT rate that they use in their pricing when listing items; if the seller provides a different VAT rate (e.g. a rate of 25% for Denmark) then we impute that rate.

This is the logic that has been in place since 1 January 2021 for the UK and 1 July 2021 for the EU.

Regarding VAT on postage, Royal Mail (or a similar universal postal operator) does not charge VAT. However, the seller wouldn't be a postal carrier and so is required to account for VAT on their postage charges. Our logic therefore assumes that a seller's shipping pricing is based on a VAT inclusive price for postage also. HMRC have some guidance here which may be of help.

Please note that you will not able to reply here, as this chat is already closed.

Thank you,

Marco

Hi Marco,

Continuing on from our discussion and my question last week regarding the VAT on shipping for international items, I have quoted your reply above that came after the thread had closed.

Regarding the highlighted section above, are you really gambling on VAT for millions of transactions based on an assumption?
Allow me to clarify something for you here, that assumption is wrong in every single case.
You also mention that the seller is not a postal carrier and therefore has to account for VAT. Yes, this is true and easy, there is NO VAT in international postage for anyone at all that is shipping from the UK to anywhere that is not the UK, albeit a private seller, a business seller, a postal operator or not postal operator. This has been true for the entire UK since 1st Jan 2021. It has been the exclusive responsibility of eBay to apply this correctly since 1st July 2021

I might also add that you are also incorrect in your statement that "Royal Mail (or a similar universal postal operator) does not charge VAT"

It is more accurate to say that the retail side of Royal Mail, trading as Post Office Counters Ltd that deal directly with the public do not charge VAT on the Royal Mail products they sell, such as 1st class and 2nd class post.

We use Royal Mail 48, Royal Mail 24, Royal Mail Special Delivery, etc on our OBA account and are charged a VAT element to all of the services we are provided by Royal Mail, as we buy them from Royal Mail and not the Post Office.

It seems that eBay have no idea about UK tax law or how to implement it.

Back to eBay's assumption about the postage including VAT...

Are you basing this on if the item contains VAT, so the listing says 20% VAT applicable and then applying or more accurately removing 20% VAT from the postage on said item?

Or are you assuming that the postage will contain 20% VAT irrespective of the VAT status of the item. So would a 0% VAT rated item like a book or children's clothing have no VAT removed from the postage? Or would the same item, with no VAT in the item have 20% VAT removed from the item anyway, even though the product is 0% VAT rated?

Of are you basing this all on the seller's status and only removing VAT from the postage if the seller is a VAT registered business.
Are you expecting me as a seller to add VAT on all my international postage, so you can remove it, thus breaching international law?

Are you then expecting us all to over charge buyers or more accurately charge buyers VAT on postage when eBay is not being VAT controller through IOSS or the other areas such as some states of USA, Singapore, Australia, etc? I ask this as when eBay change the taxes on the item, you do not do this for all sales, only those you are now VAT controller for. This is a moving table, as you just decide to implement new ones without warning, such as recently adding Jersey into the sales you are now controlling VAT on?

The only way to do this correctly is to use the long time established and internationally recognised and implemented rule that there is no VAT on international postage from the UK to anywhere and not have sellers guess what ever you feel like doing on any given day, based on an assumption and without even asking us.

Can you check with your relevant team why they are making this assumption and if they plan to change to so that it works correctly; no VAT from anyone on international postage.

Apologies this is posted so late in the hour, I have been writting this as I can in between trying to keep up with customers in the shop and on the phone, so do not expect to be able to reply again.

Thanks

Russ

Hi @ducatimondo,

I've just got an update on the above from the VAT team.

I've been confirmed that sellers are required to list their prices including all appropriate taxes and duties. Unless a seller is listing only for the export market, a seller should be including UK VAT in their item and in their associated postage prices. VAT registered business sellers are accordingly asked to list their items + the VAT rates they included on their pricing.

It is on this understanding, that when an item is shipping to an EU address from the UK, we remove a VAT value based on the VAT rate specified by a seller on the item, and on the associated shipping.

If a seller is not including UK VAT in their pricing, they should list with 0% VAT. eBay will then add VAT at the appropriate rate based on the delivery address.

Much of this information is set out on our Help Page “Your VAT Obligations” – the section on VAT calculation methodology here.

Please note that you will not be able to provide a reply here, as this chat is already closed.

Thank you,

Marco

chickens2chickens

·2 years ago

I have received an item that I have not ordered and want to know how to centact the person who sent it. I have a name and address but don't know how to find them on ebay

Thank you

katie@ebay

eBay Staff

2 years ago

@chickens2chickens wrote:

I have received an item that I have not ordered and want to know how to centact the person who sent it. I have a name and address but don't know how to find them on ebay

Thank you

Hi there,

Without having the account that purchased the item we would not be able to share any information and it would be difficult for us to find the order.

Via our help pages you can reach out to our teams and they may be able to review further and explore if there is any fraudulent behaviour.

Thanks,

Katie

jamjartoys

·2 years ago

Hi - My orders often contain multiple items and when I send them tracked I scan the bar code on my Ipad. Is there a way to scan it once for the whole order rather than having to scan it for each individual item? Failing that is there a way to add it once manually on the desktop version of ebay? or do I have to copy and paste the tracking and the delivery company to every item? Thanks. David

katie@ebay

eBay Staff

2 years ago

@jamjartoys wrote:

Hi - My orders often contain multiple items and when I send them tracked I scan the bar code on my Ipad. Is there a way to scan it once for the whole order rather than having to scan it for each individual item? Failing that is there a way to add it once manually on the desktop version of ebay? or do I have to copy and paste the tracking and the delivery company to every item? Thanks. David

Hi @jamjartoys,

Thank you for your question. This depends on how the buyer made the purchase. If they had all the items in the checkout at the same time it would appear as one order, which you could then add the tracking once for.

If the buyer puts them through the checkout separately they create separate orders. Even if you and the buyer agree they will be sent together there is no way to make them one order. So the tracking number may have to be added to just one item. Ensure any combined postage agreements are made via eBay messaging where our teams can see the buyer agreed to one parcel.

Thanks,

Katie

returns_andexdisplay

·2 years ago

I was reading a post the other week regarding feedback and Estimated Delivery Dates. Can ebay confirm if a buyer can leave negative if a item is not received in ebay estimated delivery time? Would this be removed if it is still with in the sellers delivery/dispatch time?

As the estimated delivery ebay display to buyers often conterdicts what a seller is showing. I understand how the EDD works and it changes based on different parts of the country etc, courier performance etc.

The system of EDD simply does not work for small business which ebay keep claiming they support. The data is from past information. As a small business my working day does not always mirror past days/weeks.

I might ship out in the afternoon when a order drops one day as I am not busy. This is then reflected in the EDD improving a week or so later by which point when a order drops in the afternoon I am busy with something else and not able to dispatch so quickly that day and then run the risk of negative feedback or punishment from ebay with defects.

If I try to match the one day dispatch and 2 day delivery which the courier advertises but something goes wrong ebay punish sellers. No matter what option we choose: longer delivery ebay show quicker and confuse buyers. Show correct dispatch and delivery and something goes wrong ebay punishes account.

marco@ebay

eBay Staff

Admin2 years ago

@returns_andexdisplay wrote:

I was reading a post the other week regarding feedback and Estimated Delivery Dates. Can ebay confirm if a buyer can leave negative if a item is not received in ebay estimated delivery time? Would this be removed if it is still with in the sellers delivery/dispatch time?

As the estimated delivery ebay display to buyers often conterdicts what a seller is showing. I understand how the EDD works and it changes based on different parts of the country etc, courier performance etc.

The system of EDD simply does not work for small business which ebay keep claiming they support. The data is from past information. As a small business my working day does not always mirror past days/weeks.

I might ship out in the afternoon when a order drops one day as I am not busy. This is then reflected in the EDD improving a week or so later by which point when a order drops in the afternoon I am busy with something else and not able to dispatch so quickly that day and then run the risk of negative feedback or punishment from ebay with defects.

If I try to match the one day dispatch and 2 day delivery which the courier advertises but something goes wrong ebay punish sellers. No matter what option we choose: longer delivery ebay show quicker and confuse buyers. Show correct dispatch and delivery and something goes wrong ebay punishes account.

Hi @returns_andexdisplay, thanks for your post.

This would depend on the feedback in question, I cannot guarantee you anything as feedbacks can always be different and address different scenarios. Sometimes, a buyer may leave negative feedback because the item was late and encountered another issue with the transaction, like the item not being as described, for example. In that hypothetical scenario they are not just addressing the item being late or not, but they item not being as described as well, which they are entitled to do, and in that case it wouldn't qualify for removal. However, you can always request a removal, and if it qualifies for removal, it will be removed.

Thank you,

Marco

returns_andexdisplay

·2 years ago

@marco@ebay but what is classes as late as the listing I used as an example is showing 2 day dispatch and 3 day which delivery could be up to Tueday delviery but ebay are estimating Friday to Monday.

At what point is this late? There is so much confusion cause by EDD for both sellers and buyers with the way ebay display information.

As a small business I don't just dispatch orders. I also have things like listing, ordering stock, accounts, marketing, dealing with customer equries and a lot of other things.

marco@ebay

eBay Staff

Admin2 years ago

@returns_andexdisplay wrote:

@marco@ebay but what is classes as late as the listing I used as an example is showing 2 day dispatch and 3 day which delivery could be up to Tueday delviery but ebay are estimating Friday to Monday.

At what point is this late? There is so much confusion cause by EDD for both sellers and buyers with the way ebay display information.

As a small business I don't just dispatch orders. I also have things like listing, ordering stock, accounts, marketing, dealing with customer equries and a lot of other things.

Thanks for your reply, @returns_andexdisplay.

It would be considered late if the item is not delivered within the EDD shown to the buyer. So, if you buyer was shown September 20th, for example, as their EDD, the item will be considered late if it's delivered on September 21st or later.

Thank you,

Marco

reynardnoirrailwayana2015

·2 years ago

Hello all,

I've recently had a few issues with ebay policies differing in each country, particularly Germany. I have had cases raised because buyers didn't understand listings in English and wanted returns based on that, then Ebay Germany deciding cases in buyers favour as they too do not seem to understand the listing.

In another case I have had a INR case made well after 6 months since the item shipped, and the buyer failed to collect from the post office, under the UK ebay policy this case should have been clearly in the sellers favour (confirmed twice by ebay CS) but ebay.de still refunds the buyer. It seems there is a different policy there, but this is not made clear anywhere and policy on ebay.de is only available in Germany. This item was listed on ebay UK.

Another INR case was found in the buyers favour because the tracking info was not visible to ebay.de but had been on ebay UK for ages...

Surely it would be helpful for UK sellers to have differences in national ebay policies highlighted before we agree to ship to different markets? and it does seem that the different territories in ebay world are not exactly joined up.

katie@ebay

eBay Staff

2 years ago

@reynardnoirrailwayana2015 wrote:

Hello all,

I've recently had a few issues with ebay policies differing in each country, particularly Germany. I have had cases raised because buyers didn't understand listings in English and wanted returns based on that, then Ebay Germany deciding cases in buyers favour as they too do not seem to understand the listing.

In another case I have had a INR case made well after 6 months since the item shipped, and the buyer failed to collect from the post office, under the UK ebay policy this case should have been clearly in the sellers favour (confirmed twice by ebay CS) but ebay.de still refunds the buyer. It seems there is a different policy there, but this is not made clear anywhere and policy on ebay.de is only available in Germany. This item was listed on ebay UK.

Another INR case was found in the buyers favour because the tracking info was not visible to ebay.de but had been on ebay UK for ages...

Surely it would be helpful for UK sellers to have differences in national ebay policies highlighted before we agree to ship to different markets? and it does seem that the different territories in ebay world are not exactly joined up.

Hi @reynardnoirrailwayana2015 ,

In regard to the item not as described case, as the buyer is in Germany the case opens on their side. eMBG is very similar in DE and the UK. If you would like to appeal based on information in your listing please reach out via the help pages.

For the INR, if the sale was 6 months ago they would be outside of eBay coverage. The appeal here would also be with the DE team and we cannot take this action here.

There should be no issue with the language when it comes to our teams as we are a global team and some agents may even be based in Ireland or the US.

Thanks,

Katie

darth_baggins

·2 years ago

I'd like to ask why eBay say that Royal Mail 48 comes with tracking. It doesn't. It has a scan on delivery that confirms delivery but it's incorrect to call it tracking and often causes confusion with buyers and sometimes leads to accusations of sellers providing fake tracking numbers.

This is not just semantics, there's a big difference between tracking and delivery confirmation.

katie@ebay

eBay Staff

2 years ago

@darth_baggins wrote:

I'd like to ask why eBay say that Royal Mail 48 comes with tracking. It doesn't. It has a scan on delivery that confirms delivery but it's incorrect to call it tracking and often causes confusion with buyers and sometimes leads to accusations of sellers providing fake tracking numbers.

This is not just semantics, there's a big difference between tracking and delivery confirmation.

Hi @darth_baggins

I understand where you are coming from. It tracks the delivery of the item but does not have scans throughout.

eBay is adopting Royal Mail's explanation of this service. I will share this insight with our postage team that communicates with Royal Mail.

Thanks,

Katie

darth_baggins

·2 years ago

@katie@ebay

Thanks. But your link just proves eBay's lack of understanding as you've linked to Royal Mail 48 Tracked which is a different product to Royal Mail 48. RM48 comes with delivery confirmation only. RM48 Tracked is fully tracked throughout the network.

This is RM 24/48 https://www.royalmail.com/business/shipping/uk-services/royal-mail-24-48

katie@ebay

eBay Staff

2 years ago

@darth_baggins wrote:

@katie@ebay

Thanks. But your link just proves eBay's lack of understanding as you've linked to Royal Mail 48 Tracked which is a different product to Royal Mail 48. RM48 comes with delivery confirmation only. RM48 Tracked is fully tracked throughout the network.

Thanks for confirming @darth_baggins.

I understand the service you are referencing and I will be sure to pass that on.

Thanks,

Katie

returns_andexdisplay

·2 years ago

I have two item not as described cases opened this week. One was quickly closed after as they opened the return for the wrong item as the picture they inclued did not match my listing. So without a return coming back I am not able to repot the buyer or dispute the return and now will be hit with service metric defects.

How do I get these removed when they are included?

The second return opened today for not as described, the buyer clearly had not read the listings or looked at the pictures. When messaging the buyer to point this out they have agreeded to pay for the return postage. However I will be hit with service metric defects again for doing nothing wrong. Is there away of getting this taken off? As if I accept the return I have to then report the buyer and hope ebay might give me a postage credit but never actually show a brake down of postage credits as there is no transprancy with ebay for things like this.

marco@ebay

eBay Staff

Admin2 years ago

@returns_andexdisplay wrote:

I have two item not as described cases opened this week. One was quickly closed after as they opened the return for the wrong item as the picture they inclued did not match my listing. So without a return coming back I am not able to repot the buyer or dispute the return and now will be hit with service metric defects.

How do I get these removed when they are included?

The second return opened today for not as described, the buyer clearly had not read the listings or looked at the pictures. When messaging the buyer to point this out they have agreeded to pay for the return postage. However I will be hit with service metric defects again for doing nothing wrong. Is there away of getting this taken off? As if I accept the return I have to then report the buyer and hope ebay might give me a postage credit but never actually show a brake down of postage credits as there is no transprancy with ebay for things like this.

Hi @returns_andexdisplay, thanks for your post.

If you wish to report a buyer, you can still do so from here. However, it sounds like they filed the first case by accident.

If the case was closed, and we didn't step in at all, this wouldn't cause a defect in your account. So, no need for you to remove any defects. You would get a defect for this only if the buyer asks us to step in, after not receiving a solution from the seller.

Regarding the second return, if they have filed an item not as described case, the best thing you can do is providing them with a returns label, so they can send the item back to you. Once you receive the item, you have 2 business days to issue a refund.

Since we don't handle the items, we wouldn't be in a position to dispute the buyer's claim here, which is why the return would need to go ahead. If you don't accept the return or provide any means or returns, the buyer will have the option to ask us to step in and in that scenario you may get a defect in your account. For further information, you can visit our Money Back Guarantee.

Thank you,

Marco

returns_andexdisplay

·2 years ago

@marco@ebay why should I provide a returns label and take all the risk incase the item is damaged or lost and then have to come begging to ebay for a postage credit where you provide no transparancy in accounting for credits for a specific case? If the item gets lost or damage ebay's response is often you are a business you need to account for the loss.

Amazon can provide specific credits for each case if a buyer abuses the returns system, why can't ebay do the same instead of hiding behind one credit in the invoice with no transparancy?

marco@ebay

eBay Staff

Admin2 years ago

@returns_andexdisplay wrote:

@marco@ebay why should I provide a returns label and take all the risk incase the item is damaged or lost and then have to come begging to ebay for a postage credit where you provide no transparancy in accounting for credits for a specific case? If the item gets lost or damage ebay's response is often you are a business you need to account for the loss.

Amazon can provide specific credits for each case if a buyer abuses the returns system, why can't ebay do the same instead of hiding behind one credit in the invoice with no transparancy?

Thanks for your reply, @returns_andexdisplay.

If you don't provide any means of returns in a not as described case, the buyer will have the option to ask us to step in, and in that scenario you might get a defect and if no actions are taken from your end, we will review the case and the case could be closed in the buyer's favor with a full refund without having to return the item. This is stated in our Money Back Guarantee, in case you would like to take a closer look to our policies.

Thank you,

Marco