Royal Mail lost item claim rejection
Summary: A participant expressed frustration with Royal Mail's claims process, highlighting a change that requires proof of purchase cost rather than sold value for compensation. Other participants shared similar grievances about poor customer service and lost parcels, suggesting alternatives like Packlink and expressing distrust in Royal Mail's reliability. Some offered tactics for dealing with uncooperative buyers. There's a consensus that recent operational changes have negatively impacted Royal Mail's service quality, and some participants considered contacting higher authorities or seeking legal action for recourse.
Hi
I have just had a reply to my list item claim from Royal mail and apparently now, as an eBay reseller, in order to make a successful claim, you need to provide a proof of buying cost not as previously sold item's value.
I've sold vintage pearl necklace for £70, I've had it in my collection for many years, I don't keep receipts older than 7 years.
This is my second claim in a short time, the first one was low value and RM sent me 2 books of stamp, for what?
What is going on with not so RoyalMail.
Thank you for getting in touch with Royal Mail and using our online claim form.
I am sorry we are unable to review your claim due to a problem with the information submitted. To enable us to assess your claim, we need you to supply supporting evidence, as all compensation claims must be supported by the following:
• Proof of cost price must be a purchase invoice or receipt stating how much the item originally cost to acquire – as you’re an eBay business seller we’ll only compensate for cost price and not sale price.
writesoon
·1 week agoMy question to the Royal Mail woud be....
If you lose an item that I have sold for £x and then used the Royal Mail to send to the buyer, what was the value of the item when it was lost?
They might reply, it's what you paid for the item before you sold it
But there is something called consequential loss which includes 'loss of profits from missed business opportunites'.
So, if I don't have another identical item to send the buyer to complete the sale, and can't get one, then I'd have thought Royal Mail would have accept the sale price as the value because of the consequntial loss when that sale was could no longer be completed.
It would be interesting to see how this played out legally if somene pursued it
sml192
·1 week ago · EditedThe Royal Mail terms for their Tracked services (both Account and Non-Account) explicitly excludes 'Loss of profit' and 'Loss of business opportunity':
'11.9 Subject to clause 11.14, we will not be responsible to you in any circumstances for:
11.9.1 loss of profit, loss of business, loss of goodwill or loss of business opportunity;
11.9.2 any type of special or indirect loss; or
11.9.3 any loss as a result of something else happening, as a consequence of the loss,
damage or delay to your Item.'
You agree to Royal Mail's terms by using their service so you would have no grounds for any legal challenge in regard to Royal Mail's Tracked services.
The above clause, however, is not mentioned in the Royal Mail terms for the services provided under the 'Universal Service Obligation' (Standard Tariff 1st/2nd Class and Special Delivery by 1pm (Non-Account only)), which are subject to approval by Ofcom (as per 'Consumer Protection Condition 4 - Compensation'). Those terms still only provide cover for 'Actual loss' though which is defined as follows:
' "actual loss" Where an item is lost or damaged beyond repair then it is the amount it cost the customer to acquire, purchase or manufacture the item subject to adjustment to take account of condition, age and depreciation. Where an item is damaged it is the cost of repair. No additional payment will be made for the reduced value of the repaired item.'
pillarboxred
·1 week agoRoyal Mail is no longer Royal. It is the pits.
4_bathrooms
·1 week agoJewellery is excluded from compensation on all of Royal Mail's services except Special Delivery and International Tracked so I'm surprised RM didn't reject the claim on that basis.
Non-account Tracked services used to offer compensation (up to a limit of £150) for the market value of the item; i.e. the price the item sold for. However, this is no longer the case and their non-account Tracked terms now mirror their retail terms with actual loss being used to calculate the compensation amount; i.e. the price the sender originally paid for the item which requires the original receipt or similar proof. When these changes were made the compensation limit for Tracked services was also halved to £75.
Retail services - i.e. anything that states 1st Class or 2nd Class - has a £20 compensation limit. However RM rarely pay out to businesses for loss of such items and if they do it's usually in the form of a book of stamps.
margoldb
OP1 week agoI've spoken to the shop owner where I dropped off my parcels, as tracking stopped there and learned, that many customers came to investigate /ask him if their parcels are still in the shop. Apparently postmen come and just pick up the bags without scanning packages on the way out. It is unfortunate for shopkeepers to deal with all the complaining locals as he has no proof of the mail leaving his premises until next scanning point, which is a RMsorting center. How a parcel with a clear label codes and addresses can be lost? We pay for the service and they should deliver but if a parcel is lost investigate or refund at least the cost of postage which they have a proof of. It is a question of good business principles and customer post sale care. Getting tired lately of grabby companies, hiding behind their rules and regulations.
ekotec
·1 week agoThis is why I no longer deal directly with Royal Mail. Their business collections process is to collect sacks of mail, which are split and tagged with Tracked 24, 48, or special delivery tags; they do not scan any parcels at this point. The sacks return to my local depot, where they are not scanned. They then go to the local hub at Wolverhampton; there's a fifty-fifty chance that they receive a scan there. If they are not scanned there the first scan they will get will be at whichever superhub they are sent to which could be a day or two after they were collected.
I had two laptops go missing and because they had not received a scan they refused to acknowledge they had been collected even though I supplied CCTV footage of the RM driver collecting them. In the end I had to open a small claims court case and they settled in full no questions the day before it was due.
At least in your situation you have the acceptance scan from your drop off point.
The easy solution to your problem is to get someone to issue you an invoice for the item that is missing and supply that. If your morals prevent you from doing that then open a small claims court case and as you have proof it was dropped off there is no doubt that you win or more likely they pay you at the last moment.
margoldb
OP1 week agoThank you very much for sharing. I'm sending an email to their HQ and writing a letter to ombudsman with my observations/ complaints. My material loss I can accept at this point but unfairness and low standard of paid services should be scrutinized and corrected for the benefit of all. Weekend homework. Thank you
asleepingdragon
·1 week agoYou need to email the executive office, they get the proper refunds sorted out.
royalmailhq@royalmail.com
c_of_e84
·1 week agoRoyal Mail have always considered themselves "Trade Customers" when paying out claims like this, think its about time Ofcom investigated it long with many other aspects of royal mail.
sheba-knows-best
·1 week agoYes. I agree it is horrendous. I have two tactics.
If the buyer is nice, I explain all - the truth about RM not refunding business sellers - and beg them to make the claim for me. RM will tell them seller has to make the claim and I tell them to say the seller will not refund. RM has always refunded the buyer in the end. Obviously, you need to have a lovely buyer who hates big corps and be prepared to be humble and grateful :-)
If the buyer is unsympathetic, I tell them RM refuses to refund business sellers so if the buyer wants a refund they need to get it from RM as I have proof of postage. Sometimes buyers moan but get the refund this way, other buyers wait for ebay's guarantee to kick in and I make a loss :-(
Fortunately RM hasn't lost a parcel of mine in probably over 5 years...
jonatjonatjonat
·1 week ago · Editedwow. Quite something for someone who knows best.
margoldb
OP1 week agoThank you for your advice. I'll remember that next time. I refunded the buyer promptly to avoid a defect, lost my top seller badge recently. With my last lost claim, before refunding buyer, I've decided to wait for RM's response, which came late and eBay stepped in to resolve the case on my behalf. Sad thing, as it is becoming more apparent, that we are loosing decent service companies to greedy businesses . 🙁
jonatjonatjonat
·1 week agoI’ll tell you now if a seller started telling me nonsense that I need to claim via Royal Mail because Royal Mail won’t refund them then they would be getting negative feedback quite sharply.
Royal Mail do refund you, but just because someone doesn’t agree with what Royal Mail define actual loss, nor do they agree with Royal Mails terms and conditions doesn’t make it the buyers problem.
Really poor advice IMO.
pillarboxred
·1 week agoRoyal Mail is a dross company bought up by some billionaire who didn't get that way by not grabbing money. They don't have a Customer Care department: what they do is deflect liability and frustrate complainers. It took me hours to make a complaint.
boundarycoins
·1 week agoHow tight are the timescales on this with clock ticking on the eBay MBG? If a Royal Mail claim can’t go in for 10 working days after the due date I’d be concerned about the buyer getting cold feet and opening an INR anyway.
To pull it off is quite bold as it takes a seller confident in their communication skills and the gumption to attempt it. For that reason that I kind of rate it.
Are you sure this still works 5 years on though with the current RM T&C’s?
sheba-knows-best
·1 week agoI don't know. I haven't read them. Of late the only 'loss' I have seen is when buyer says it hasn't arrived but tracking shows it has.
I guess you have to make sure you have a nice buyer and not a nasty b@gger who loves leaving negs. When I have taken on buyers in the past who didn't want to help, I think it was when I had reason to think the buyer was a scammer from fb already left/ their attitude, but it is a while ago...
Speaking for myself, if a seller had proof of postage and they messaged me politely to explain they couldn't get a refund from RM and could I possibly help? I would. But then I hate leaving negatives and wouldn't dream of it doing it to a polite seller who proved dispatch and just didn't want to lose out.
jonatjonatjonat
·1 week agoI’d have sympathy. It’s still the sellers problem to sort as they are the business.
Asking me as the buyer to make a claim is factually incorrect to do. You as a seller are then getting funds for a transaction that should be cancelled. there’s a word for that.
boundarycoins
·1 week agoThe trader cannot make the buyer’s statutory refund rights conditional on successfully pursuing Royal Mail so it would have to be approached very carefully. I can’t find anything in RM’s terms which prohibit it in principal.
margoldb
OP1 week agoThank you for reading and replying. I'm going to move on with this one now. The buyer has been refunded timely, no defect on my eBay site. I will just experiment with other companies for my small parcels. Just upsetting that public services providers can not be trusted. Thank you
pillarboxred
·1 week agoRoyal Mail and the Post Office are not public service providers. They are private businesses owned by billionaires who are fleecing us.
pillarboxred
·1 week agoYou seem to always take the side of any large company someone is hurt by. RM didn't deliver in due time. After the time eBay allows to sort things, I refunded the buyer without eBay STEPPING IN. The seller got the item but eBay told me that as I had refunded "voluntarily" (voluntarily with the implicit threat of a bad assessment) they couldn't help me. Luckily my buyer paid me privately. But the waste of time: we never get the time wasted back.
jonatjonatjonat
·1 week agoAre we not supposed to care about the buyer who doesn’t have their order and is fobbed off by the business with some nonsense as to why they can’t refund them?
pillarboxred
·1 week agoNo, eBay buyers have the scheme to obtain redress which they always receive if they follow the path eBay lays out. Because of the time scale eBay lays out which is different to what the postal carriers set out, buyers are refunded too soon and it harms sellers' cashflows. In one memorable instance, an item took THREE MONTHS to arrive in France although I had paid £120 for NEXT DAY delivery. In another case, the item took six months to arrive with the UK buyer who had been in Finland o
n a teaching or research sabbatical or some such and the item was with his neighbour. He did repay me but the stress was huge. His son had been checking the address for mail but hadn't been told to check with the neighbours. We have to live with all this crap.
sheba-knows-best
·1 week ago · EditedSo, @jonatjonatjonat is this private account with 137 items sold since 2015, 5 followers and 4 items for sale your main ebay account? It's just that a business seller who makes a living from ebay (albeit "fobbing off" buyers "with some nonsense" as to why I can't refund) I like to know who's sharing his pearls of wisdom around...
the_brick_lodge
·1 week agoThis has unfortunately always been the case for claims as a business with Royal Mail.
margoldb
OP1 week agoThank you for your reply. Lesson learned. I'm surprised as only these last couple of months 2 of my parcels got lost with RM. I've always felt confident sending jewellery with them.
pillarboxred
·1 week agoSomething has gone very badly wrong with Royal Mail. I don't know what and neither do they which is the worrying thing.
margoldb
OP1 week agoIt is a shame, not a sterling quality anymore, sold to investors and lowering their standards. I have purchased my label from eBay page but when I go back there to manage my postage the only option I find is "contact RM for customer service". There is no customer service/protection. Where can I go to complain. They even did not reimburse me the cost of the label.
c_of_e84
·1 week agoThere is no CS on many online platforms, not mentioning any names.
margoldb
OP1 week agoI've had parcels missing in the passed, but never had to deal with RM directly. Difficult website to navigate and if you call them you are forever waiting. They know how most of eBay resellers lacquire their stock, proof of buying are not always available and the buying costs are negligible. What a way to safe on claims.
c_of_e84
·1 week agoI have great difficulty completing the online claim form because it doesn’t fully support cut and paste and I am dyslexic so its a form of disability discrimination, if I do get a successful claim they pay out by cheque so I wait 22 weeks and tell the I have lost the cheque so they send a replacement so it outs there operating costs up, I have enough cancelled royal mail cheques to wallpaper my lounge.
margoldb
OP1 week agoAgain, this shows how little effort goes to an after sales customer support. I do not need stamps or cheques. Paying postage to a courier means I put my trust in them in handling my goods and if they fail they should pay, investigate and improve. In corporate language Reliability is the Real Measure of a Logistics Partner. Reseller's business is not treated seriously by RM.
pillarboxred
·1 week agoEven when there is, they only give pre-prepared answers to questions we are not asking. EBay is especially bad for that.
cobwebcottage
·1 week agoOne of the reasons I don't use them unless I really have to.
A few years ago, I had to send a parcel by RM as it was a new build and not recognised by Evri. They lost it and I was sent 2 books of stamps.
Packlink are very good at compensating for lost parcels and the tracking is good.
pillarboxred
·1 week agoI'll have to look at Packlink. I know zero about them. I don't use a printer and don't want one so can only use services that can print off labels for me.
cobwebcottage
·1 week agoYou dont need a printer if you use Evri through Packlink. You get a QR code with an alpha numeric number under it. You can write the number on the boxes and then take them to the store. My local small store/PO are great as I drop the parcels and they process them for me. You get confirmation through the tracking that they have been dropped off at the shop.
pillarboxred
·1 week agoSadly, Packlink seems to be for "packaged goods", warehoused items, not like my "one off" stuff. I'd also have to ship my goods to their warehouse somehow. That's the problem: how?
cobwebcottage
·1 week agoEh? Packlink are the agent used by Ebay. I send one off goods and use them all of the time apart from extra large/fragile/expensive parcels and then I use Parcelforce.
I dont sell warehouse items and you dont send parcels to any warehouse.
@pillarboxred