Ebay asking for my Nat Ins Number
Summary: The discussion centers around a concern raised by a participant regarding eBay's request for their National Insurance Number. The participant expresses apprehension by noting the potential risks if eBay's data were to be hacked and become accessible to unauthorized individuals. The responses seem to share similar concerns, reflecting on the security and privacy implications of providing sensitive personal information to online platforms.
I have had a e mail for E Bay asking for my national Insurance number so i can contiunue to sell on e bay
I am a registered business and have been for over 20 years
I am VAT registered and have been for over 15 years with my VAT number oin my e bay account
I pay an accountant to do my accounts of my sales on ebay every 3 month and now this
I AM NOT HAPPY ABOUT GIVING MY NAT INSURANCE NUMBER TO E BAY, and there is no mention of it being safe wit E Bay im furious
tonge3748
·1 month agoUnless of course e-bay get hacked and the data is made available to .....any body who shouldn't have it.
technthread
·2 months agoV Pro displayed my Nino for 4 days when I first signed up. Other sole traders were the same as V treated it like a CRN.
Someone in Spain had a go using my dormant business account bank card a few times back in May. Thankfully there were no funds in it. The bank fraud team couldn’t have sounded less interested on the phone. Those card details would only have come from a handful of well known platforms as I used it rarely, unless the data was stolen directly from the bank.
Far east suppliers keep ringing me by name about supplying me with stock that I don’t want. Likely bought the data off a supplier I trusted or it’s yet another data hack from somewhere.
Anyone else feel like cancelling the phone contract and disconnecting the broadband and for a while? I’m finding it draining.
vintage-emporium-jedburgh
·2 months agoBasically big brother. Bigger brother and all his relatives are watching .
Nothings private to them
shopping-ferret
·2 months agoNobody knows exactly how many 'private' sellers have left Ebay due to the new HMRC rules. However, I have been on various threads, for both private and business seller boards for the past few years (and social media conversations too) and there has been a large number of private sellers angrily saying they are leaving online sellers or have just left and (many ignorantly blamed Ebay for the new rules) and this was before Ebay was asking for NI numbers. Out of curiosity, I checked some of their Ebay accounts and found several had no items listed to sell but could tell from their feedback profile, they had been quite active. Now you would think if they were doing fairly reasonably well, they would just swallow up the losses to their profits, convert to a business account and carry on. But seems they were avoiding that at all costs.
Also, it seems pretty obvious to me that this is what was going to happen. I have just Googled this question and if you did so yourself (if you would like to that is), you will see that since the new selling rules, large numbers of private sellers have left selling platforms. Market research by Ebay showed one in three sellers sold less as a direct result of confusion or concern over the rules. This is a significant number and cannot be chalked down to coincidence, especially when the market was expanding prior to this and following the downturn in the economy and outcrys of cost of living - plus as a result of the pandemic, more and more sellers were making extra cash by turning to sites like Ebay, Vinted etc. It also states many users generating high amounts of tax closed their accounts to avoid being flagged (or thinking they could avoid). I noted many private sellers started inserting statements into their listings that they were clearing the garage or whatever - or opening new accounts with user names such as 'clearing-mums-attic' kind of thing - in the belief it would be evidence they were legit private sellers (despite the fact they were selling sixty brand new hand mixers)!
As has been stated already, even if they are remitting their earnings - they are still being cheats!! As a business seller (and this board is for business sellers) - we get charged fees not only on the value of the sale but it includes postage, too! So as an average, I can say a small business sellers like me is maybe 25% worse off compared to a private seller (who is in fact trading as a business) selling the same item at the same price! And that is before any tax is declared and paid! So your comment in my opinion is not correct. Even if they pay tax, they are still evading fees charged by the platform they are using. Ebay is slowly and reluctantly getting round to writing to them to convert to a business and from my experience of those who have complained about the rules on these forums, they have virtually all said they were leaving Ebay or stopping selling. I feel even though Ebay is losing out on fees, they view these dodgy sellers as loss leaders, because they help to fulfil a sector of sellers that attract buyers.
I have no idea where you think that trading with a private account has little to do with tax. Of course it has a lot to do with it! For some, it is also a fear of giving out their NI number but again, this is because a lot of these private sellers are hiding their income either from the tax man, the DWP or any other reason. Many people receiving benefits - including pensioners on pension tax credits - would lose these if their declared earnings exceed the limits. Now the DWP and HMRC can share data.
You appear to be a VAT registered limited business who does not only use Ebay to trade; so your concerns about other traders differ to mine, as I am a sole trader. We probably face some different challenges. I am talking from a personal point of view as are you. My focus is on the dodgy private sellers as they are the biggest threat to me. I can compete with big sellers - but it is hard to compete with private sellers - many of whom have an even larger turnover than businesses like myself do, judging by the number of items they are selling, feedbacks etc. I once rang Ebay to report a seller who had literally thousands of items, yet they were a private seller. There was another anomaly also that Ebay were unable to explain.
Anyway, sorry for the long response, but I did not see how I could reply to you without going deeper.
therenewalworkshopltd
·2 months agoYour missing it.
Whether someone is paying tax or not, is immaterial to this argument.
It may have some small bearing on people using private accounts, but very little.
As someone else said, the changes to earnings being reported to HMRC will have very little effect. They already had access to this information.
And for the record, I didn't say that they were not being cheats by doing tax returns and still using a private account. Of course they are.
Nor did I say that using a private account has little to do with tax. I said that I don't care whether someone pays their taxes or not.
But the larger concerns for this kind of thing are to do with unfair advantage due to lower fees, not accept returns and not adhering to the relevant consumer laws.
HMRC don't care what kind of account someone is using on Ebay. They only care about whether or not that person is paying their taxes.
If I see a private account that is actually a business, I report them. I have major issue with any person/company doing this. It is unfair to everyone who is trading legally.
storage.boutique
·2 months agoThe thread is about supplying NI Numbers to eBay so of course it is about taxes.
It has a huge bearing on whether or not people use private accounts.
If you use a private account you are being asked for your NI number. This means the authorities can very quickly cross check your social security claims with your tax returns against your eBay trading record.
In my humble opinion, those who complain about data security should be the first to be investigated.
The type of account on eBay determines the type of reporting that goes to HMRC. For example, private sellers are reported to the self assessment team using NI numbers, Limited companies are reported using company numbers (NI numbers of Directors are held now online).
The unfair advantages that private sellers get is down to eBay monitoring that the correct type of seller is in the correct category. I think there should be one fee for selling across the board, but eBay is trying to compete with everybody at once - Vinted, Whatnot and Amazon. Thats a difficult gig.
therenewalworkshopltd
·2 months agoIf you use a private account you are being asked for your NI number. This means the authorities can very quickly cross check your social security claims with your tax returns against your eBay trading record.
What you are missing here, is that this has not changed.
The ability to do this was there prior to the changes.
The difference being that this is information is now tied together and submitted by the marketplaces.
The fact of the matter is, that marketplaces have held sufficient information of their customers for a long time prior to this change. ie. they have name, address, bank etc. How hard do you think that it has been to match this stuff up? Adding NI is only really making things simpler.
So what has actually changed is peoples perception of this and nothing more.
storage.boutique
·2 months agoI seriously doubt eBay would have asked for NI numbers if they already had them. They would simply have sent them on.
jonatjonatjonat
·2 months agonowhere did they say eBay already had NI numbers.
therenewalworkshopltd
·2 months agoThat was neither stated nor implied.
storage.boutique
·2 months agowith reference to eBay asking for NI numbers, and my comment that this information may be used by HMRC to cross check NI numbers with eBay sales and tax returns.
“What you are missing here, is that this has not changed.
The ability to do this was there prior to the changes.”
I am replying that if eBay already had the numbers I think they would not have needed to ask
the_book_seekers
·2 months agoThey also have the advantage of being able to sell into Europe while side stepping the various rules and costs for business sellers. It wouldn't surprise me if at some point the EU holds ebay responsible for this .
nigel_paul_wright7557
·2 months agoIt is now law.
Ebay have to provide HMRC data about all sellers about how much they turn over.
So HMRC need to know the NIN to reference the right person.
I have no problem giving them mine but I have nothing to hide !
shopping-ferret
·2 months agoPrecisely!
There are 2 main types of seller who won't want to provide their NI number:
Those who have reason not to (eg needing to conceal actual or additional income)
And those with paranoia.
And there are plenty of sellers who should have registered as a business and be submitting annual self-assessments to HMRC. They got away with it for far too long and more so since Ebay abolished selling fees for private sellers. It simply hasn't been a level playing field. After successfully selling a particular product for several years, I've had to back out due to a private seller who not only blatantly copied my listing and photo ideas, but was able to undercut me, so I lost my customers.
I've no sympathy for those who 'threaten' to leave selling on Ebay as they refuse to provide NI details. There's still plenty of dodgy private sellers on the site though. I kind of get the small private sellers with the odd few non-private sales - but when there's people blatantly trading...?
jonatjonatjonat
·2 months agoThose 'private' sellers are in a lot of cases probably paying taxes as required and HMRC are completely happy.
Its the other laws that are being broken that is the issue (and obviously being at an advantage to those actually on business accounts from a fees perspective).
shopping-ferret
·2 months agoWell I think your answer is pure supposition saying 'lots'... Yes, of course some will submit self assessments (now!!) but the point is the ones I'm criticising are cheating because they are not by definition private sellers, are dodging registering as business sellers and thus evading paying Ebay seller fees.
So whichever way you argue, they are in the wrong. Just to clarify again, I'm referring only to ones who are INDISPUTABLY traders.
I would add I believe a majority of private sellers are genuine and legit.
What 'other' broken laws are you referring to please?
jonatjonatjonat
·2 months agoAgree it’s supposition, as it is to assume lots are not paying taxes.
other laws might include DMCCA for a start
shopping-ferret
·2 months agoHardly assuming! Why do you think HMRC have brought in these new rules?? Because people are honest? Yes, of course many are. But if those fake private sellers were truly honest and voluntarily paying taxes on earnings - and NOT being forced to merely due to Ebay now reporting earning to HMRC - then they'd be playing by ALL the rules. Not picking which to comply with and saving at least 25% in seller fees as a big fat bonus.
I have been selling on Ebay 20 years. I also purchase a large amount. I've learned a lot.
sml192
·2 months agoThe Digital Sales Reporting rules weren't brought in by HMRC. They were agreed by the member countries of the OECD.
jonatjonatjonat
·2 months agoSorry you’ve completely lost me.
therenewalworkshopltd
·2 months agoThe biggest issues with the law and not using a private account, are things such as not displaying an address/contact details. Misrepresentation of what the seller is doing. Ie, they are pretending to be private.
There are actually multiple laws that are not conformed to, when using a private account.
The least of which issue wise, is whether or not they are paying their taxes.
Frankly, I don't care if they are reporting their earnings correctly or not. What I do care about, is them getting discounted fees from Ebay and not having to deal with things such as customer returns.
So you need to be referring to consumer law and data protection laws.
And if your talking about private sellers selling food products, then food standards and so on.
shopping-ferret
·2 months agoThey're cheating everyone!
paleface1962
·2 months agoWe just removed all our items for sale .....I will not comply with this digital enslavement
61stephenuk
·2 months agoeBay will still provide HMRC the data once you have reached the reporting limits even if you dont give them your NI
shopping-ferret
·5 months agoEvery seller is asked to supply their NI number as a requirement from HMRC. Being VAT registered doesn't automatically also register your NI no. with Ebay or any online selling platforms.
From time to time Ebay bring in new rules and sometimes these are not their own initiates, but come from higher sources and they must comply. I'm not concerned whether my NI number is safe. Every day we put our trust in the system. PayPal, banking, Every time we give out our bank card details or withdraw cash. Or NHS details. Our email and home addresses. Our contact details as business sellers. The list is endless.
If you don’t want to supply your NI number when you've clearly nothing to hide, then yes, you may not be able to sell on Ebay at some stage. I supplied my NI number ages ago! There's no exceptions just because you're VAT registered or have an accountant. This policy is not Ebay's so don't take it personally. We are all in the same boat. You need to get over it or shut shop.
kelseryn
·5 months agojonatjonatjonat
·5 months agoIt doesn't look like it was you who started it, though even if it was, I don;t think you can close the thread.
If you want to stop getting notifications, take a look on this page
sml192
·5 months agoYou can't close the thread, only the moderators can do that. You don't appear to be the person that started the thread anyway.
If you don't wish to continue receiving notifications when someone posts to the thread then you can unsubscribe from it. To do that click/tap the down arrow in the original post on the thread and then select 'Unsubscribe' if that option appears. If you only see 'Subscribe' in the list of options select that and then repeat the process selecting 'Unsubscribe'.
claire_leonhart
·4 months agoIn defense of privacy i would say you can change bank or bank account, addresses, phone numbers easily, NIN is something you keep for life, so I understand why people are worried about safe.
Anonymous User
·5 months agojust to add, the way E Bay restrict payments and hold money is nothing short of abuse, bullying or coercion, civilised and honourable businesses would not do that to anyone, I personally will not have involvement with bully's they should at worst tell you to close account so you are not forced to provide details to release money, as you say, you are a legitimate business, your VAT number gives HMRC all they need, one of the E Bay mentors actually told me I would be investigated if I did not provide my NI number, doubt it for £90 of sales, the fact is a mentor, not anyone qualified in finance or employed made this threat, why have HMRC themselves not jumped in on the conversation, additionally one of the pro sellers slipped up telling me they were a private seller not a business with over 5000 sales, yes, definitely private.
vintageattic*
·7 months agoI am a pensioner. I sell my old things on ebay. These are my things that I am selling - and usually for less than they are worth or less than I paid for them. They are sold to declutter and downsize. This is not a business for me. It is like going to a carboot and selling your things. Surely giving our tax id in this case makes no sense. I am sure there are many people like me. Ebay is not a 'business' for many people, but a way to sell our stuff. I have never made near the threshold. But even if I were to reach that annual threshold, how can this be considered taxable income when they are my things. And how does that even work? If I have a blouse that I paid 50 for and it sells for 10, then I am taxed on the 10? When I had already paid tax on the 50? How can this work? There isn't any profit. In this setting, ebay is a platform, provides a place where we can sell - but it is not a business. In my view, in these cases, giving this information to tax authorities is against the spirit of what ebay means for many people.
sml192
·7 months agoThe thresholds that you are referring to (30 sales transactions or €2,000 (£1,740 approx.) total sales in a calendar year) only determine whether the Platform operator (eBay) needs to report your sales to HMRC. They are nothing to do with your tax liabilities as an individual.
Private individuals who are only selling unwanted personal possessions will have no tax liability unless selling a single item/set for £6,000 or more at which point they may be liable for Capital Gains Tax.
jonatjonatjonat
·7 months agoThis might sound a crazy concept. But there are people who lie.
You having o give your NI number should you meet one of the selling thresholds is collateral damage to catch the minority who ARE using eBay (or other platforms) to sell new goods and who are in fact a business.
vintage-emporium-jedburgh
·7 months agoMinority 🤣
jckl1957
·7 months agoMost of your post would also apply to me -
I am a pensioner, selling my own items which I have had for years, usually for less that the price I paid.
However, the threshold of 30 items, which you do look to have passed, is not a limit set by Ebay.
Once you sell more than 30 items in a year, ebay has to pass your details to HMRC.
HMRC ask Ebay to include your NINO as part of that information so they have a complete picture of you.
When I was asked for mine, I submitted it.
Ebay already know my full name, home address, date of birth and bank account details. They will pass all of that information to HMRC so for me there was little point in withholding my NINO.
It is important to understand that selling 30 items does not mean you will pay tax.
If HMRC take any interest in you at all, they will consider their own published badges of trade before they ask you to pay any tax:
Indicators of Trading
kelseryn
·7 months agojacande13
·9 months agoI want a refund and return
jckl1957
·9 months agoI am not sure your post is relevant to the topic of NINOs?
If it isn't and you want some help or would like to start a discussion, then it would be better if you started a new thread.
You need to give more details in your post.
As it stands, it doesn't really mean anything.
@jacande13
storage.boutique
·1 year ago"What started off as a bit of fun" was definitely a private seller as you are implying selling a few items a month. Then something happened and you changed to a business activity - it was no longer a bit of fun. At that exact point you should have started doing what we all do, keep records, account and if liable, pay tax and convert your eBay account to a business one. Otherwise you are cheating a system and all of the other legitimately registered business sellers. You cannot now say that it is extra work, as you should have been doing it all along, and doing it properly. You have sold 6.5k items on your account which says to me you are a business seller, and should certainly be doing proper accounts and self assessment. It may well be that you, as you say, have no tax to pay.
If you continue to say you are a private seller, and even convince eBay that you are, you make the platform less trustworthy and open to accusations of dodgy traders making fast bucks and not paying taxes - I am sure this is not you, but what I am saying is that if everyone does this then the platform gets a bad reputation. I certainly know that I have had terrible experiences on eBay buying from private traders in the past and I know what I think about the reputation of the platform as a result.
If you genuinely want to have a business, do it properly. If you dont, get out before the heat in the kitchen gets a lot hotter, I say.
shopping-ferret
·1 year agoYes, eBay UK is now required to store and report National Insurance numbers to HMRC for UK sellers. This is part of a broader requirement for digital platforms to report sales data and seller information to help HMRC identify those who may be liable for capital gains tax or other taxes on their online sales.
You are not special. Nobody is happy to provide the information, but if you don't then you can no longer trade on selling platforms as a business (or private if you go over the selling threshold). You can be as furious as you want, but we are all subject to the same rules.
honeymonster007
·1 year agoBeen wondering if eBay hold peoples NI number permanently on their data base or if there's an option to remove it.
the_book_seekers
·1 year agoI was okay with giving ebay my NI number. But was not impressed to find out that ebay is using members personal details, including any tax identification number provided, to train AI. Fortunately the thread which revealed this contained a link to an opt out.
honeymonster007
·1 year agoHad bookmarked that thread but forgotten all about it, thanks for the reminder 👍
A little nervous about giving them the number. Not so much worried about the tax man but more worried about ebays online security being up to scratch and do they keep your details even if you close an account or decide to stop selling.
the_book_seekers
·1 year agoI'm guessing but I would think they would keep details after an account is closed as there might be some legal requirement to do so as the likes of HMRC might come calling as a part of an investigation.
honeymonster007
·1 year agoNever thought of that..that's a good point.
shopping-ferret
·1 year agoI have just Googled it and the link is
http://accountsettings.ebay.co.uk/ai-preferences
storage.boutique
·1 year agoThat link is simply to stop eBay taking your data and using it to train their own AI. It is related to GSPR regulations and you can opt out.
The requirement by HMRC for eBay to submit NI numbers is nothing to do with that and is a legal requirement. The other major platforms are also implementing and two of the website hosting companies I use have also started doing it. You cannot opt out of HMRC reporting requirements sadly or we would all be rich.
shopping-ferret
·1 year agoYes, I am aware of this. I just provided it to anyone here who is concerned and wanted to opt out. I am not paranoid about my data being being collected by Ebay, HMRC or any body that is licenced.
storage.boutique
·1 year agoIf you cease trading and delete you account, they will only hold it for as long as needed. Normal accounting rules are for 5 or 7 years.
shopping-ferret
·1 year agoNot sure if they hold that information on file. It is required by HMRC, not Ebay, and the details are sent to them.
sml192
·1 year agoA Reporting Platform Operator is required by 'The Platform Operators (Due Diligence and Reporting Requirements) Regulations 2023 to retain the information collected for a period of 5 years following the relevant reportable period.
' (4) A reporting platform operator must keep the records required by paragraph (3) for a period of five years beginning with the day after the end of the reportable period to which they relate.'
the_book_seekers
·1 year agoDoes what you've quoted from explain if after 5 years the data is to be deleted or can the reporting platform operator retain it for a longer period?
sml192
·1 year agoNo, it doesn't specify anywhere what happens after that period. I would assume that it would only be deleted if the seller is no longer an Active Seller.
dch2112011
·1 year agosnippets from ebay's privacy policy UK - not sure it is relevant but interesting none the less
'Further, such prior information is never completely removed from our databases due to technical and legal constraints, including stored "back up" systems. Therefore, you should not expect that all of your personally identifiable information will be completely removed from our databases in response to your requests.'
The following honest statement from ebay just about sums up all information sharing on the internet - govt, ebay, anywhere !
'We employ many different security techniques to protect such data from unauthorised access by users inside and outside the company. However, "perfect security" does not exist on the Internet.
honeymonster007
·1 year agoThank you for taking the time to find that and the link.
Imagine on the whole sharing your NI number will be fine with ebays security, but there's still a risk. People can make a more informed decision now 👍
dch2112011
·1 year agoSomewhere ebay publish the time scales information is held country by country - I have found the document name but as yet have not found where it has been hidden - it was updated this year, ebay publish all of their internal working directives as well as public information as do most large organisations but it takes a little time finding where they have - shall we say hidden it sorry I mean published it !
dch2112011
·1 year agohere is the most up to user privacy policy 2025
section seven explains the duration that data is stored