Counterfeit item warning yet thousands of similar listings
Summary: ddmusicgeekuk shared their frustration about receiving a takedown notice for a record they believed was legitimate but was removed by eBay as a counterfeit. They questioned the inconsistency in eBay's enforcement, noting many similar listings remain active. tressygirl suggested that some listings slip through due to the sheer volume on eBay and are often removed when reported. 4_bathrooms asked if the takedown notice specified a rights holder. Participants discussed the challenges of identifying genuine products amidst widespread counterfeit issues, and the difficulty of enforcing consistent policies. ddmusicgeekuk expressed dissatisfaction with eBay's inconsistent handling and questioned why similar reported listings were not removed. Several users shared experiences, highlighting systemic issues around eBay's enforcement mechanisms and the complexities of intellectual property rights management.
I'm curious, as it appears similar discussions have been removed from the boards.... I received a takedown notice for a record (Queen: Live Aid) brand new item, purchased through legitimate wholesale/distributor for my shop (both physical and online), mass produced product.
I see thousands of similar, if not the same, products from broadcast recordings selling on eBay every day, so would reasonably assume they are allowed. Even the big sellers on eBay sell thousands of them! It doesn't seem to be a consistency to the takedowns, if eBay says the are counterfeit, regardless of actual manufacturing and distribution, then surely ALL listings should be removed, or none at all?
Don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying this as a "poor me" post, I just genuinely don't understand how some people get left to carry on and get sales yet a small seller such as myself gets penalised, and I like to think fairness and equality would be present across the eBay platform.
There's also sellers describing their own listings as "14 tracks on a blank cd with no artwork or sleeve" which are selling constantly and remain live and available despite blatantly being CD-R copies!
If the items are genuinely classed by eBay as "counterfeit" then surely this should apply to all similar music products (live broadcast titles), blatant copies and the majority of products coming in from Chinese drop shippers, or would this affect eBays profits too much?
I performed a quick AI scan for broadcast live type listings and it returned just over 23,000 listings currently live, so it's not exactly a small amount!
ddmusicgeekuk
OP2 weeks agoThanks everyone, some interesting discussions going on in the comments. For my part, I do accept the item in question is a grey-area type one, and I did when I listed it.
I guess my main annoyance is the fairness of the eBay system, if it goes against eBays conditions, fine, everyone has their listings that violate it removed.
The idea that eBay are not capable of doing this even if they really wanted to doesn't add up. If I, as a general user, can get a list of thousands of products currently live that violate those terms, then I'm sure eBay are more than capable of doing so, and of picking up many more.
More as a test, I reported two listings after reading one of the comments yesterday which suggested it was reporting from users that got things removed and not eBay themselves. One was the "blank CD" from a prog band, the other was a title similar to one that got removed (same publisher, band, "broadcast recording" etc)... both are still available and live and selling, so there is obviously something else going on with how eBay chooses to handle it. I'm not sure how long they need to act, but my listing was live less than 2 days before being taken down.
4_bathrooms
·2 weeks agoWhere VeRO is concerned the rights holder reports individual listings. They can bulk report but each individual listing must be included in that report. Neither eBay nor anyone else except the rights holder (or the rights holder's authorised representative) can enforce the rights holder's intellectual property rights.
eBay only listens to reports from buyers; i.e. where a buyer opens a return request by selecting "Doesn't seem authentic" as the reason. eBay absolutely does not listen to listing reports made by other eBay users.
If you want to report a listing for being a pirate/bootleg copy of music you need to report it to PRS who manage copyright and royalties for musical artists in the UK.
technthread
·2 weeks agoIt may be that some listings survive the cull because they aren’t as detailed in the item specifics. For example if you added the barcode / MPN etc and others didn’t they are more likely to slip through the net.
I had a very similar situation to this with a vinyl record I bought off eBay from a well known retailer, I decided to sell it after 6 months or so and it got pulled for being bootleg after a couple of days.
technthread
·2 weeks ago*I check discogs now to see whether a record is banned on their marketplace as that is a reliable guide.
ts-trade-uk
·2 weeks agonumber of scams. I've reported fake Milwaukee tools to eBay many times, and they do nothing. They are so easy to spot. Even my Milwaukee representative has to escalate cases to senior people just to get eBay to take action.
It's bad for eBay because people lose trust in what they are buying on the platform. They should have a system where, if an authorised dealer is registered with the brand, they can take action on counterfeit listings.
For example, if you are an authorised LEGO dealer and you flag a listing as counterfeit, that listing should be removed immediately. The seller should then be required to submit proof that they have the right to resell the products, just like Amazon does.
the_brick_lodge
·2 weeks ago · Edited"For example, if you are an authorised LEGO dealer and you flag a listing as counterfeit, that listing should be removed immediately."
That sounds like a recipe for disaster to be fair.
What's needed is for the rights owners to take down listings and I don't know why they don't do it, small companies may not have the staff but for global companies do they not care, do they think it drives customers to more official outlets or increases sales of new products?
There are so many fake branded tools on eBay (which are all on the Chinese marketplaces too) so I'd now never buy a second-hand branded tool as how do you know it was genuine in the first place? Is that a good thing for the brands?
the_brick_lodge
·2 weeks ago · Edited"There's also sellers describing their own listings as "14 tracks on a blank cd with no artwork or sleeve" which are selling constantly and remain live and available despite blatantly being CD-R copies!"
That's been going on for decades, the "public domain" films are rife on eBay also and a lot of them aren't in the public domain in the UK or the EU but of course private sellers with multiple quantities of counterfeit goods is great for the buyer experience isn't it?
There's also a constant stream of sellers selling digital copies of books, how a private seller with 1 feedback can list 1000+ counterfeit items I don't know but of course they are very welcome on eBay by the looks of it.
Regarding your record, if it was sourced via legitimate channels then it can be resold, the problem is eBay, who knows why they've removed it, you could call customer service or you could just write twelve explanations down on a piece of paper and throw at dart at it.
The very large sellers won't get listings removed, the biggest UK seller still has photos that don't comply with eBay policy but eBay will never do anything about it, those kinds of sellers aren't treated like the rest of us.
rainbowtrax
·2 weeks agoUnfortunately, just because a record or CD was sourced through a legitimate channel, it doesn't mean that it's definitely legit and legal to be sold. It's been many years now since bootleg manufacturers got more professional and found their way into legitimate supply chains and distributors. It's a far slicker business than it used to be and you can find records and CDs on certain bootleg labels being sold in major chains and looking very legit, barcodes and the works. That's been the case for at least the last twenty years. And I don't just mean all the stuff where the copyright's expired and it is legal.
the_brick_lodge
·2 weeks agoSorry my reply was lazy, what I meant was a rights owner can't remove something that is legitimate simply because they don't want it sold in a certain place.
There was a news story years ago about Tesco having fake bottles of wine on their shelves, I've see fake media on the river being sold with FBA and who knows where that goes if the seller is suspended or abandons their stock, no supply chain is going to be 100% secure, but the distributor for a major record label shouldn't have bootleg stock in their inventory, wholesaler or such then yes maybe.
eBay generally won't pass judgement on whether something is fake or not (although I don't know what they do these days with their AI monitoring), if the rights owner removed it OP should be able to contact them for an explanation, although if it a bootleg release then obviously no explanation is needed.
rainbowtrax
·2 weeks agoYeah, both issues of that Queen title are bootlegs, albeit slickly manufactured and marketed. You also have the issue of the grey market where some things are legal in some countries but not here. Virtually every post here about the removal of a bootleg in recent years, it turns out that the seller originally bought it from a legit source and thinks or wants to believe that it's legal when it's not. The only post I can remember where ebay made a completely wrong removal was for a couple of legitimate old Bowie picture discs which hadn't even ever been pirated. They were totally in the wrong but wouldn't back down.
The main issue with ebay is that nothing is ever done fairly and with a blanket removal of an offending title. Everyone who ever posts here about having had a bootleg removed points out that there are still other identical items that aren't being pulled but that's just the way when you're dealing with such a large and diverse selling platform. Ebay have no knowledge or expertise in any particular category so mostly don't understand what's been listed in the first place.
VeRO is theoretically meant to only protect genuine rights owners from real copyright contraventions and mostly it works well. But it can be abused and there have been instances. But if you get a VeRO takedown, it's generally not worth fighting it even if you feel it's wrong (mostly it's not anyway).
4_bathrooms
·2 weeks agoDoes the takedown notice name a rights holder or does it state it was an automated decision?
tressygirl
·2 weeks agoIt does happen, that is, because of 7 billion listings on at any one time some do slip the net, and become listed.
Yours was spotted and reported, when the others are, if they break a selling reg, they too will be removed.
eBay also rely on members to report listings, there's a report button , a ? mark bottom right, on every listing.
@ddmusicgeekuk
ddmusicgeekuk
OP2 weeks agoI put mine up two days ago, seems like it works quicker on some sellers than it does on others.... or, maybe, just maybe, the big sellers are reporting similar products to remove competition? Cynical observation, or close to the truth? As for the number of listings, I'm sure eBay has AI set up to scour the site... it took Copilot (which I rarely use for anything!) a second to single out 23k listings... unless eBay uses ChatGPT, which is probably still suggestion workflows, documentation, other ideas and generally trying to do anything but do what it's asked!!
ddmusicgeekuk
OP2 weeks agoMore as a test, I reported two listings after reading this comment yesterday. One was for a "14 track blank CD" from a prog band, the other was a title similar to one that got removed from mine.... both are still available and live and selling, so there is obviously something else going on with how eBay chooses to handle it. I'm not sure how long they need to act, but my listing was live less than 2 days before being taken down.