How important is gender to you?

 

Passports and driving licences should not state if the holder is male or female because it causes problems for transgender people, a Conservative MP has said.

Maria Miller, who chairs the women and equalities committee, said the government should “strip back” talking about gender unless it was necessary.

A person’s gender was not relevant on official documents and created an unconscious bias in job and university applications, she said.

 

The rest of this story is here->  http://bit.ly/22Do9wz

 

At a time when Girls already outperform Boys academically, why do we need to deny our gender? What is it with those obsessed with so called equal opportunity, do they intend to legalise performance enhancing drugs in order that males and females can race against each other, Should we abandon traditional dress in favour of gender neutral clothing and should men not also be allowed to give birth?

 

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How important is gender to you?

I think they should forget about whether a person has "had the change" or not. If they've "changed", let them show whatever they've changed in to and be done with it.



It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.

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I'm not bothered, but if gender is not relevant on a document and if its omission helps the minority of people with gender dysphoria then I can't see the problem of either leaving it out or preferably not making it compulsory to answer. Then everyone has a choice of whether they want their gender visible on a passport or driving licence.

 

should men not also be allowed to give birth?

Feel free if you want to and you don't mind an ectopic pregnancy, feeling over-stretched followed by a Caesarean

But not to be paid for by the over-stretched NHS 

All that we are is what we have thought.
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Those who've "changed" may feel it is important to them to have their (new) gender on documents and if it's important to them, they should be allowed to do so.

 

should men not also be allowed to give birth? There is no way on Earth that I'd want to "do anything womanly"....



It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.

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Estimates of the prevalence of gender dysphoria or GID range from a lower bound of 1:2000 (or about 0.05%) inthe Netherlands and Belgium to 0.5% in Massachusetts to 1.2% in New Zealand.These numbers are based on those who identify as transgender. It is estimated that about 0.005% to 0.014% of males and 0.002% to 0.003% of females would be diagnosed with gender dysphoria, based on current diagnostic criteria. Research indicates people who transition in adulthood are up to three times more likely to be male assigned at birth, but that among people transitioning in childhood the sex ratio is close to 1:1.

 

The above gives some insight into the scale of dysphoria, I don't see any reason why one should not fall into one group or another and like ceedee why not simply carry the gender you wish/need to be. I suspect this is far more about feminist causes than anything else, it seizes upon an area of concern to further it's own ends. Does your sex matter on a passport? possibly not especially as so many younger people appear to be neutral, some time in the future no doubt we will follow the example of farmed animals keeping only those who have a use and value, women your time will come.

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At first it seems reasonable but....................................

 

Gender is one thing, sexuality or sexual leaning is another.

 

When it comes to identity documents, I think it is important for the person to be correctly identified and I think there is a potentially huge issue with people being able to pass themselves off as someone else all too easily.

 

If we are going to go down this route of removing identifyers, we then have to accept that there will need to be move to more biologically identifying methods which many feel are already too intrusive.

 

How would you feel about having to be microchipped, for example?  It is already a reality but to me it's totally unacceptable to be tracked and traced whereever I go, what I do etc.

 

There are times when we need to be more understanding of the needs of others who 'feel' different, but not at the expense of having their needs superceding those of others.

 

Understanding and acceptance is not just a one-way thing and at times, I honestly feel I am viewed and treated with disdain (at best) for not having some kind of 'difference' that allows me to demand special treatment.

 

 


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Message 6 of 43
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So when they go through an airport checkpoint, each person has to prove what gender they are.

 

How would that be done I wonder?

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In my opinion they should forget all this bloody nonsense and concentrate more on getting the country out of the state it is in ! There is more money goes to the EU for flood defenses outwith this country than is even thought of spending here on flood defenses and that is only the tip of the iceberg.

Get our own country in order before worrying about is it a he, a she or have not made my mind up yet and whether whatever you want or do not want on a passport or official document becomes all they worry about.

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I agree to a point about the money thing too.

 

 

To think that thousands of pounds was spent on fireworks around the country just to celebrate a new year when there are all kinds of more important needs, its  shocking.

 

 

As for gender, I won't go into my views on the morals, but we are born either male or female and wherre it is necessary to state gender on ID documents,  then I believe the gender can only be as you were born. Any change can never be a complete gender change, having said that additional information could always be added to take into account any physical changes that have been acquired as that would help with identifying the individual.

 

 

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Passports and driving licences should not state the age of the holder because it's ageist

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but we are born either male or female and wherre it is necessary to state gender on ID documents,  then I believe the gender can only be as you were born

 

Sexuality is not always a matter of 100% one way or the other. Gender dysphoria is a well known condition treatment for which is available on the NHS, it takes a long time and every effort is made to determine the person is truly committed.

 

Transgender people have enough difficulties and face enough problems from society as it is, to stimatise them in the way you suggest would be positively evil.

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@bankhaunter wrote:

but we are born either male or female and wherre it is necessary to state gender on ID documents,  then I believe the gender can only be as you were born

 

Sexuality is not always a matter of 100% one way or the other. Gender dysphoria is a well known condition treatment for which is available on the NHS, it takes a long time and every effort is made to determine the person is truly committed.

 

Transgender people have enough difficulties and face enough problems from society as it is, to stimatise them in the way you suggest would be positively evil.


I am not talking about sexual orientation at all, we are either born male or female one or the other so on an ID it should so state as you were born. Simple. An ID is just that, and not putting into question whether you  SHOULD be so or not.

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Anonymous
Not applicable

I feel that an ID is about who you are at this moment, not who you were.

Once we were all about 8 pounds in weight....I don't think a baby photo would be a very good way to identify anyone by.

That is why we need to renew our passport and driving licence every 5 or 10 years to give a more accurate image.

We all change, we might get some scars in our face, our appearance changes as we age, we get wrinkles, go grey, etc..................and for some also their gender changes.

Transgender people will look nothing like they did before treatment, so what is the point to be able to identify them by their birth gender. They want to get acknowlegement for who they are on the inside and outside.

 

 

 

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I am not talking about sexual orientation at all, we are either born male or female one or the other

 

Not necessarily, something which is recognised by health professionals but it would appear not by bigoted Bible botherers.

 

What you propose would deny people the right to be what they feel they are with no consideration as to what treatment they have received.

 

Such denial promotes discrimination and prejudice. An ID identifies you as being the certain person you claim to be, whatever gender you may have apparently been born with originally is immaterial.

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True.

 

As f-archie said, there are not many people who have gender dysphoria (<0.1% in most countries).  So I don't see any reason why those people can't just renew their passport, driving licence and other official documents if they change gender.  It's not as if they are going to have to do that repeatedly, one they have made their mind up.

All that we are is what we have thought.
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@bankhaunter wrote:

I am not talking about sexual orientation at all, we are either born male or female one or the other

 

Not necessarily, something which is recognised by health professionals but it would appear not by bigoted Bible botherers.

 

What you propose would deny people the right to be what they feel they are with no consideration as to what treatment they have received.

 

Such denial promotes discrimination and prejudice. An ID identifies you as being the certain person you claim to be, whatever gender you may have apparently been born with originally is immaterial.


The only prejudice I can see here is yours bh it is quite clear xxx denial of ones medical problems is something I do not promote. your assumptions however I shall ignore and be sympathetic to your plain lack of any understanding respect and tolerance for a particular faith.

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I heard an interview with Eddie Redmayne on his leading role in the new film "The Danish Girl" He plays Lili Elbe a Danish transgender Pioneer, although by all accounts he does an amazing Job he has come under fire from the transgender community who believe that a transgender actor should have been given the role. ( I heard no complaints from Steven Hawking when he redmayne played him on screen) So if you take the politics out of it as human beings we are more than capable of accepting the desire or need of some to pursue another gender path but surely it is also quite reasonable for identity checks to include gender, If we respect the right to choice then there is nothing to be shy about.

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The attitude of which you speak smacks of "poacher turned gamekeeper", almost like some smokers who've given up and become more anti-smoking than non-smokers who've never smoked.

 

I don't think they've done the TG community any favours by taking that attitude.

 

I think young TG people deserve a lot more consideration than those over 60 who suddenly decide they want to change. Why didn't they do it long ago?



It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.

Message 18 of 43
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Anonymous
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Why didn't they do it long ago?

Do you really have to ask that question?

Why don't they deserve the same consideration as the young people?

 

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They don't have to be young

 

Kellie-Maloney.jpg

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