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Community Member
Posts: 409
Registered: ‎26-06-2011

Re: Association of eBay Business Sellers?

in reply to quibono12
cyber serfdom. A revolt will come, eventually.
Community Member
Posts: 409
Registered: ‎26-06-2011

Re: Association of eBay Business Sellers?

in reply to rightgrand
Google Australian eBay revolt or similar.
Community Member
Posts: 1,162
Registered: ‎18-02-2011

Re: Association of eBay Business Sellers?

in reply to so_last_century_rockin

I'd say there's no doubt that ebay are making excessive profits from their monopoly in the UK.  The government's probably never going to take notice as it's businesses who pay ebay fees, not consumers.  The fact that many of these businesses are lone people probably doesn't make much difference to their perception, sadly.

 

I'm not saying all is well between ebay UK and sellers - far from it.  But I don't see that UK sellers are of the right mindset to get worked up enough to do anything about it.  I don't think any action in Australia has actually resulted in anything tangible - it seems that fees there have been notching upwards just like everywhere else.  Ebay announces something, sellers make a noise, they do it anyway.

 

The one and only thing that could ever change things is competition, from other websites offering alternatives to ebay.  Market forces will stop them eventually, but who knows when.

Community Member
Posts: 1,306
Registered: ‎01-10-2010

Re: Association of eBay Business Sellers?

in reply to so_last_century_rockin

so_last_century_rockin wrote:
You can't prove they do it on purpose, but if the product is not fit for purpose they should refund. They opt to make themselves exempt from the rules they insist we uphold, which cripple many of us.

It would be piece of cake to prove that they are doing it on purpose Smiley Happy

 

They should test all changes before making them live - if they apply such bugs WITHOUT PROPER testing - they are doing this ON PURPOSE.

 

And they can't say that they can't catch them - as 99% of bugs are so stupid mistakes that even BASIC testing would catch them instantly.

Community Member
Posts: 409
Registered: ‎26-06-2011

Re: Association of eBay Business Sellers?

in reply to shopatrubyandjules
I agree. I'm a member and have used their tax service.
It was the Tax Investigtion service that sold me on membership though. An excellent deal and would encourage more eBay users to join the FSB and lets get them to represent us to eBay.
Community Member
Posts: 409
Registered: ‎26-06-2011

Re: Association of eBay Business Sellers?

in reply to rightgrand
As a sole trader (if you are) you are allowed to use a personal bank account for business. I was told the BY the FSB, who representaed a business who had changed from sole trader to partnership, but neglected to open a business account. They got his fines reduced from 'put out of business' to manageable. But I heed your warning. I'm also a member of USDAW to cover a part time job I have to build up my pension. Although they cannot help me with every eventually I have, I would not be without their protection, even though, in both cases a try to play by the rules.

I'm not talking about representation to get people off the hook, but we need representing against random rules that effect our businesses without consultation or proper through thought.
Community Member
Posts: 1,162
Registered: ‎18-02-2011

Re: Association of eBay Business Sellers?

in reply to so_last_century_rockin

I reckon I could have challenged that after about ten minutes on google.

 

That story sounds more like the sort of sales bull-poo story they tell to flog their insurance policy than something that actually happened in the real world.  I really find it hard to believe that HMRC would or even could persecute someone for the nature of their bank account - they collect tax, they don't set random rules for what type of bank account you should have.  They can only enforce the law, and I'm very sure that there isn't a law that says that you must have a bank account of a certain type.  If you're paying the right amount of tax then they couldn't care less if you keep your money in a biscuit tin - literally, as that is what some cash businesses pretty much do.

 

I know people who work for HMRC, and they're not the sons of satan who just randomly persecute people just because they want to be evil.  They're there to collect tax and nothing else.  Pay your tax and they won't randomly descend on you like a pack of dogs as a shiny suited insruance salesman way have said they do.

 

It all sounds just like the burglar alarm salesman going on about all the burglaries in the area.  Create fear, then flog the punter a product to solve the problem that they didn't previously know they had.

 

If you really want that sort of policy it's well under £100 on its own, without being an FSB member.

 

Community Member
Posts: 241
Registered: ‎23-08-2007

Re: Association of eBay Business Sellers?

in reply to rightgrand

There will never be "An association of Ebay Sellers".

Just take a look at the most popular topics on the first page of the Business sellers Board regarding:

Logging in problem..............46,268 views......152 people bothering to comment.

Worst Sales Ever................3,373 views..................235 comments.

 

Some are just apathetic or have given in knowing they are helpless .........................some can't be bothered with the smart Alecs

 

We will never be a team.


Community Member
Posts: 409
Registered: ‎26-06-2011

Re: Association of eBay Business Sellers?

in reply to rightgrand
Are we talking about the FSB?
I don't mind people being reasonably well paid. And in London those salaries wouldn't get you very far.
I'd be more interested t know how much eBay generates, how many employees it has and where its profits go.
Community Member
Posts: 409
Registered: ‎26-06-2011

Re: Association of eBay Business Sellers?

in reply to rightgrand
If you operate a business other than as a sole trader, you need a business account.
from The Guardian
Do I need a business account?
If you are a sole trader you might find you have nothing to gain from opening a business bank account. Many freelance workers pay cheques or have Bacs payments made into their personal current account. This is generally more convenient and cheaper than opening a separate business account. However, it is still important to make a note of business income and outgoings for your accounts and tax return.
But if you run a business which involves handling a lot of cash and cheques, your bank might insist on a business account. And if you set up a limited company or partnership that keeps your business finances separate from your personal finances you will definitely need one.
Community Member
Posts: 409
Registered: ‎26-06-2011

Re: Association of eBay Business Sellers?

in reply to shopatrubyandjules
alas apathy ... but all it takes is for something to peek interest: Scotish Referendum. EU referendum, last general election all so more people engaging than in a very long time. A lot of people looking but not engaging means they are interested, but don't want to pin their comments to a mast for all to see. Give them a vote ...
Community Member
Posts: 4,607
Registered: ‎26-04-2007

Re: Association of eBay Business Sellers?

in reply to so_last_century_rockin

so_last_century_rockin wrote:
...
I'd be more interested t know how much eBay generates, how many employees it has and where its profits go.

Since eBay Inc. is a publicly-owned US corporation then all of that is public knowledge. You can find out from ebay's own investor information pages if you are genuinely interested.

 

Look, this idea of an ebay sellers' association gets proposed every once in a while here. It never goes anywhere for several reasons:

 

  • The person who proposes is it rarely interested in being the one who sets it up.
  • Nor are the people who think it's a really good idea.
  • If the intention is to raise an army of disgruntled sellers to do battle with the evil corporate empire, it will fail because ebay would just ignore it.
  • The association would have to have aims and goals to work co-operatively with ebay in the interests of sellers while also being supportive of ebay's own goals (i.e. maximising sales, etc.) in order to get any engagement at all with ebay.
  • ebay sellers already pay out plenty in terms of ebay fees, PayPal fees, and other various overheads. If they are also going to pay subscription fees to an association there is going to have to be real value for money in it, and that needs to be apparent up front, before anyone joins.
  • ebay sellers will not want to pay subs to support dishonest competitors (like businesses pretending to be private individuals, for example) which means the association would have to have standards and vet subscribing sellers somehow.
  • Running the association, maintaining its website, doing all the admin, etc. will take time and money, before the association starts working on initiatives with ebay to deliver back some value in return for the subscription fees it's collecting. That takes more time and money.

Once you think it through, it's not hard to see why such an association doesn't exist. There's something like 200,000 + businesses operating on ebay in the UK (according to ebay) which is a lot more than the - let's say - few hundred who regularly vent their anger on this board. Those businesses will be mostly self-supporting, getting on with the job despite ebay's shortcomings. Why would they want to pay out more fees to an association? What would be in it for them?

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I should of used a verb!
Community Member
Posts: 135
Registered: ‎10-12-2011

Re: Association of eBay Business Sellers?

in reply to richardmsstuff

Yes you have got something right Ebays shortcomings say no more .

Community Member
Posts: 409
Registered: ‎26-06-2011

Re: Association of eBay Business Sellers?

in reply to richardmsstuff
Maybe I'm inept, but could not find the answer to my question on the link you provided. Thanks anyway.
Community Member
Posts: 409
Registered: ‎26-06-2011

Re: Association of eBay Business Sellers?

in reply to oilpure
You are certainly right that we have to complain.
When eBay send out those surveys the questions are generally carefully crafted to avert criticism or they simply channel everything towards what they feel is safe to criticise. The recent price increase survey was an exception, but the reply I got from them referred to a graph in the new seller home page with a bold banner exclaiming 'ebay listen to your criticism'. Yes, they listened to the most minor of criticisms. This is all how the corporate world 'manage' the population. It's patronising. Yes, we have a choice to use eBay or not, but since they have a history of buying everything that looks promising it leaves us with Hobson's choice, take it or leave it as the Big River is not applicable for me.

I understand many of eBay's efforts to improve the market, and although I understand that sellers were leaving negative feedback for buyers when the seller was in the wrong, they were a minority. But it marked a change from a 'trading community' to a selling and buying platform.

I think some kind of organisation that represents sellers is desirable. I would subscribe. No, I don't have the leadership skills to do it. Neither do have the time, unfortunately.
Community Member
Posts: 1,162
Registered: ‎18-02-2011

Re: Association of eBay Business Sellers?

in reply to so_last_century_rockin

Give me £200, I'll give you a list of vague reassurances.

Community Member
Posts: 4,607
Registered: ‎26-04-2007

Re: Association of eBay Business Sellers?

in reply to so_last_century_rockin

so_last_century_rockin wrote:
...

I think some kind of organisation that represents sellers is desirable. I would subscribe. No, I don't have the leadership skills to do it. Neither do have the time, unfortunately.

Sure it's desireable; lots of things are desireable. But you're running up against two of the points I've made:

 

Firstly, the aims are too vague (as they always are). As a seller, what kind of representation do you want, specifically? And, if it was on offer, how much per month/year would you be prepared to pay for it? It's more fees off your bottom line, so you must surely expect some sort of return. I mean concrete benefits that increase your earnings.

 

Secondly, you are right. It requires skills, time, and - let's not forget - money up front. If there are ebay sellers with the right skills and enough time and money, wouldn't they do better by putting that into growing their own business instead of helping out struggling competitors?

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I should of used a verb!
Community Member
Posts: 4,607
Registered: ‎26-04-2007

Re: Association of eBay Business Sellers?

in reply to so_last_century_rockin

so_last_century_rockin wrote:
Maybe I'm inept, but could not find the answer to my question on the link you provided. Thanks anyway.

It's there if you look for it. You have to read the company's quarterly and annual financial statements. If you want a less detailed overview with links to drill down, try looking at the Yahoo Finance page for ebay inc

 

One of my favourite statistics out of all of that stuff concerns Pierre Omidyar who founded ebay back in 1995. He's the guy who wrote all the marketing/PR guff about ebay being a community, etc. back then. He's one of ebay's biggest shareholders and his personal net worth is US$8.8 billion.

 

Did he start up ebay because he wanted to create a community, or because he wanted to be amazingly wealthy? Take a guess.

 

 

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I should of used a verb!
Community Member
Posts: 1,162
Registered: ‎18-02-2011

Re: Association of eBay Business Sellers?

in reply to richardmsstuff

He may have started it with dreams of making the world a cuddly lovely place for all I know, but I'm sure I wouldn't turn my nose up at $8bn.

 

I'd wonder how those in favour would feel if a bunch of their customers got together and started making demands that they reduce their prices, do this that or the other, with a threat of them all stopping buying as one unless their demands were met?

 

I'm sure there are ebay sellers that make huge profit margins, but I don't see why they should feel bad about it.  Ebay has a monopoly on a very large market, but I'm sure there are plenty of sellers with a monopoly within a small niche market.  I sell all kinds of clearance stock in all categories so I get a brief insight into all sorts of weird markets.  I'm often (pleasantly) shocked at just how valuable and profitable fairly mundane products can be.

 

 

Community Member
Posts: 1,577
Registered: ‎01-07-2006

Re: Association of eBay Business Sellers?

in reply to richardmsstuff

richardmsstuff wrote:

so_last_century_rockin wrote:
...
I'd be more interested t know how much eBay generates, how many employees it has and where its profits go.

Since eBay Inc. is a publicly-owned US corporation then all of that is public knowledge. You can find out from ebay's own investor information pages if you are genuinely interested.

 

As ebay resides in a US Tax Haven they can pick and choose what they tell the public .
The real details that ebay has to show can be found on the ebay SEC 10-K filings .

But back to the topic .

There was in the past an ebay sellers association , the problem was it was badly run , and not actually legally constituted .

The FSB is a quite good group that does actually have contacts with Government , however as the membership is mainly businesses that have B & M stores or worksshops , ebay or even amazon business sellers would have a hard time getting their points across .

Any association that is formed with the sole purpose of fighting ebay will fail , but if the association offers members a wide range of services it will grow .

For example , Royal Mail frequently consults with specific groups to help frame new policies or changes, then they open a public consultation . As many ebay business sellers use Royal Mail they could be included in any group consultation if there was an association .

Many single interest associations have meetings with different government departments when new policies are planned or changes in the law are being considered .

And of course there are the savings,special deals that a strong ebay association can secure .

The NFU has got discounts of up to 80% from Jewsons for its members and discounts on 17 different car brands for its members.

The NMTF offers inclusive public and product insurance in its membership fees, in some cases 50% cheaper than a broker can obtain .

Most associations offer tax advice , legal advice and technical advice , as well as a wide range of discount schemes .

And it is a fact that a well run association can improve the professionalism of its members . If only 10% of the business sellers on ebay were to set up and join an ebay association it is not impossible that at some point ebay would want to meet with them before dropping badly thought out plans and ideas on the whole ebay community .